Atheism is not a belief, so why would anyone lie that it is?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sure.

If a professor lectures on something or if a student reads it in a textbook, he or she is most likely going to accept it as probably true, or as the best that's known at present, or something like that. When that student takes an exam, that's the material that will count as a right answer. When the graduate is hired, it's what employers will expect them to know.

When a molecular biology student learns about bioenergetics, glycolysis, electron transport, oxidative phosphorylation, chromosomes and chromatin, or cell membrane structure, where do you think they hear about those things?

Imagine an engineer. If he or she needs to know some physical constant or some details about the properties of some material, that engineer is apt to consult a standard reference like the CRC Handbook. And that engineer is going to have considerable confidence that the information there is correct, to the point of basing his or her own calculations on it.

In a word, we learn from those who came before us. Most of what a person knows, was learned that way.

This seems like a long-winded way of saying "I skipped all my labs in undergrad."

I'm an engineer. As part of my program, there was quite a bit of emphasis on verifying the constants and equations in the textbooks through experiments and testing.

AFAIK, every accredited engineering program does this. Didn't yours?

 

[wandering peacefully]

This seems like a long-winded way of saying "I skipped all my labs in undergrad."

I'm an engineer. As part of my program, there was quite a bit of emphasis on verifying the constants and equations in the textbooks through experiments and testing.

AFAIK, every accredited engineering program does this. Didn't yours?

First of all, he changed his goal post from "faith" in his learning to learning from information gathered from those who came before him. Dishonest change in context.

 

[Audie]

Clearly atheism is not a belief, one has only to look it up in any dictionary to see this. So lets see if anyone wants to misrepresent it as a belief in this poll.

I think people call it a religion / faith / belief
for a simple reason, it being that the person
making the statement is unable to comprehend
that others think that differently.

Religion clearly is central to many, everything
Is derived from, radiates from, is measured by
their religion.

Its natural though quite mistaken, to think
everyone is like that.

 

[somefruitychristian]

Atheism is more like a belief in science. Everyone believes in something, including athiests.

 

[Sheldon]

Atheism is more like a belief in science. Everyone believes in something, including athiests.

What is a "belief in science?" Everyone does indeed hold beliefs about the world, humans could not function without forming beliefs, however a belief need not be unevidenced.

Atheists necessarily hold beliefs, but atheism need not be a belief, all one need do is not believe in any deity or deities.

 

[Audie]

Atheism is more like a belief in science. Everyone believes in something, including athiests.

Like believing that drinking water relieves thitst
is a "belief"?
Try to understand that " belief" in the trsnscendent unknowable is what some peo0le do.
I dont. Atheists dont.
Try to understand that we are not just like you, just substituting " science " for god.

 

[somefruitychristian]

Like believing that drinking water relieves thitst
is a "belief"?
Try to understand that " belief" in the trsnscendent unknowable is what some peo0le do.
I dont. Atheists dont.
Try to understand that we are not just like you, just substituting " science " for god.

I didn't mean that like that! I apologize. My thought process is that "belief" isn't always in a religious context and therefore everyone has to believe the world came about some way.

 

[lukethethird]

I think people call it a religion / faith / belief
for a simple reason, it being that the person
making the statement is unable to comprehend
that others think that differently.

Religion clearly is central to many, everything
Is derived from, radiates from, is measured by
their religion.

Its natural though quite mistaken, to think
everyone is like that.

I agree but I would add that those who call atheism a religion merely want to blame not just some but all atheists for the same kind of blunders and atrocities that theists commit.

 

[lukethethird]

I didn't mean that like that! I apologize. My thought process is that "belief" isn't always in a religious context and therefore everyone has to believe the world came about some way.

People believe the world works a certain way in order to function but no one has to believe the world came about a certain way. One can try to understand scientific explanations but they don't have to believe in them like Santa Clause.

 

[Sheldon]

I didn't mean that like that! I apologize. My thought process is that "belief" isn't always in a religious context and therefore everyone has to believe the world came about some way.

Not knowing something does not demonstrate evidence for any deity. That rationale is called an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

Atheism is simply the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, though some atheists may go further and claim to believe no deity exists. However the claim a deity created anything is not supported by any objective evidence theists can demonstrate, and so it has no explanatory powers.

 

[Audie]

I didn't mean that like that! I apologize. My thought process is that "belief" isn't always in a religious context and therefore everyone has to believe the world came about some way.

No offense. We do see that equivocation so often tho!
Glad to see you know better.

 

[1213]

...That's just a meaningless platitude, did you even read what SkepticThinker asked?....

I understood he asked properties, and I gave him properties.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I understood he asked properties, and I gave him properties.

You gave a word salad, IMO.

God is spirit and love, love is God, God (who is love ) has love for others... so love has itself?

I'm not sure there's a meaningful statement in what you gave. At the very least, it's not clear what's meant metaphorically and what's meant literally.

 

[Sheldon]

"What are the properties of this God?

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

That's just a meaningless platitude, did you even read what SkepticThinker asked?

I understood he asked properties, and I gave him properties.

You gave him a meaningless platitude, as I said. You posted a quote that gave a bare assertion that a deity was non-physical. That could describe any non-existent thing, it tells us precisely nothing.

 

[1213]

You gave him a meaningless platitude, as I said. You posted a quote that gave a bare assertion that a deity was non-physical. That could describe any non-existent thing, it tells us precisely nothing.

I would like to know, are your thoughts physical? Can you prove they are physical and not in any case non physical?

 

[Sheldon]

I would like to know, are your thoughts physical? Can you prove they are physical and not in any case non physical?

My thoughts are the product of my physical brain. If my brain dies, then all the evidence demonstrates my consciousness ceases at that moment. We also know thoughts exist as an objective fact, this forum amply evidences that, as thoughts are being exchanged in every post.

I see nothing comparable to that for anything spiritual or any deity.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

My thoughts are the product of my physical brain. If my brain dies, then all the evidence demonstrates my consciousness ceases at that moment. We also know thoughts exist as an objective fact, this forum amply evidences that, as thoughts are being exchanged in every post.

I see nothing comparable to that for anything spiritual or any deity.

I don't think we know that for sure. There are people whose heart stop beating and lungs stop breathing -- they are clinically dead. Yet they come back with stories about seeing their bodies from above. I'm not saying this is definitive proof of consciousness apart from the brain, but at the same time, it does need to be considered.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think we know that for sure. There are people whose heart stop beating and lungs stop breathing -- they are clinically dead.

Death is a process, not a specific point in time. If it's not too far gone (and if the thing causing it can be corrected), it can be reversed.

Yet they come back with stories about seeing their bodies from above. I'm not saying this is definitive proof of consciousness apart from the brain, but at the same time, it does need to be considered.

I'd say it's not even evidence of consciousness apart from the brain.

If a person comes back from a period without brain activity, they'll necessarily pass through a period before they can be interviewed when they have brain activity. It seems a bit much on your part to assume that someone whose brain was failing to the point of death would have an accurate idea of exactly when a particular thought occurred to them.

If anything, these sorts of stories are evidence that, thanks to similar physiology, dying brains tend to fail in similar ways.

... and meanwhile, any time that anyone had an OBE was interviewed to see if they could provide verifiable details that would have only been obtainable by them through the OBE, those details are wrong or missing.

It's not odd at all that someone going in for (or just coming out of) major surgery would have that major surgery on their mind. It's also not odd at all that someone whose brain is failing could mistake dreams or thoughts about the experience of surgery for real events that they witnessed.

 

[1213]

My thoughts are the product of my physical brain. If my brain dies, then all the evidence demonstrates my consciousness ceases at that moment. ...

If you have not ever died, how can you know that?

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
My thoughts are the product of my physical brain. If my brain dies, then all the evidence demonstrates my consciousness ceases at that moment. ...

If you have not ever died, how can you know that?

Good point, if only anyone else had ever died in significant numbers, and their consciousness was never again witnessed in any objective way? Then we might have objective evidence...