Atheism is not a default position

[atanu]

Being undecided means you don't believe. If you have not yet decided to believe, then you do not yet believe. It's like saying there are three states of having a sandwich:

..

Undecided means undecided.

 

[leibowde84]

Undecided means undecided.

Those that are undecided still are "without" or "lack" the belief.

 

[leibowde84]

Undecided means undecided.

Keep in mind, we are not saying that their belief is "lacking", as that would be a completely different meaning, as it would mean that the belief is insufficient.

 

[atanu]

I don't see why that would be an issue. If you want to call a stone an atheist, that's fine. I don't see it as any different to saying "this stone is not married" or "this stone does not own a stable" or "this stone is not a poet laureate". It's kind of a meaningless thing to say, but it is still at least just as technically accurate to state "this stone does not possess belief in a God".?

A stone or a baby cannot take a considered position in this matter.

If you insist that stones are also atheists then so be it.

 

[leibowde84]

A stone or a baby cannot take a considered position in this matter.

If you insist that stones are also atheists then so be it.

You still have not shown why consideration is necessary to be "without" a belief.

 

[Thief]

"Lack", in this context, does not mean what you think it does. I'm not sure how many times I have to show you this, but this time I will provide the definitions so it is more clear.

To be "lacking" or "a lack of" means that you have an insufficient amount of something. This form of the word can be derrogatory. However, to "lack" something simply means to be without and signifies absence. Here is the definition of the word:

"I lack a drivers license" = "I am without a drivers license" (not derogatory, as it merely means to be absent of)

"My driving skills are lacking" = "I am a crappy driver" (is derogatory)

lack
lak/
verb

1. be without (how it is used in this context) OR deficient in.

If you are lacking anything.....the next man having......is better than you.

My son in law finally! got his drivers license.....four times he failed!
what a lump!

derogatory

 

[Thief]

You still have not shown why consideration is necessary to be "without" a belief.

You have thought running in your head as the decision is pending.....there is no god.
unless you have more word salad......

such would be consideration.

 

[Curious George]

You still have not shown why consideration is necessary to be "without" a belief.

Because consideration is part of the definition of a theist. And defining atheist in terms of theist would necessarily limit atheists to the same set.

Without this, meaningless propositions ensue. Orange becomes atheist. Love becomes atheist. Hate becomes atheist hell, even the word "theist" becomes atheist. Parameters are important.

 

[atanu]

Those that are undecided still are "without" or "lack" the belief.

The 'undecided' ones neither lack nor possess. It is very simple.

But be happy and stick to your half truth view. This topic is not worth spending so much time. The worthwhile thing is the OP.

 

[Willamena]

I see, as the crux of the dispute, that some don't understand negation. The absence of belief (applies to the negation, too) doesn't create an existent vacuum of nonexistence that can be used, in the laws that govern the logic of language, to define. Things are defined by essentials, which exist. When we say that atheism is defined as an absence of belief, that doesn't mean that it is defined by that absence--on the contrary, it is defined by the existent thing, the thing that is absent. Atheism is defined by the belief in gods as much theism is. Absence (or negation) is only a condition that applies to the existent.

The absent belief is something--it is that belief, which happens to be absent. The world is defined by existent things; grammar, like nature, abhors a vacuum.

 

[Thief]

I see, as the crux of the dispute, that some don't understand negation. The absence of belief (applies to the negation, too) doesn't create an existent vacuum of nonexistence that can be used, in the laws that govern the logic of language, to define. Things are defined by essentials, which exist. When we say that atheism is defined as an absence of belief, that doesn't mean that it is defined by that absence--on the contrary, it is defined by the existent thing, the thing that is absent. Atheism is defined by the belief in gods as much theism is. Absence (or negation) is only a condition that applies to the existent.

The absent belief is something--it is that belief, which happens to be absent. The world is defined by existent things; grammar, like nature, abhors a vacuum.

are you showing us.....two sides of the same coin?
Yeah or nay.....it is a belief.

 

[Curious George]

I see, as the crux of the dispute, that some don't understand negation. The absence of belief (applies to the negation, too) doesn't create an existent vacuum of nonexistence that can be used, in the laws that govern the logic of language, to define. Things are defined by essentials, which exist. When we say that atheism is defined as an absence of belief, that doesn't mean that it is defined by that absence--on the contrary, it is defined by the existent thing, the thing that is absent. Atheism is defined by the belief in gods as much theism is. Absence (or negation) is only a condition that applies to the existent.

The absent belief is something--it is that belief, which happens to be absent. The world is defined by existent things; grammar, like nature, abhors a vacuum.

And all this time I was counting on the fact that all of my non-posts were grammatically perfect.

 

[leibowde84]

If you are lacking anything.....the next man having......is better than you.

My son in law finally! got his drivers license.....four times he failed!
what a lump!

derogatory

Read the definition. It does not mean insufficient in this context. Are you claiming that atheists don't have enough faith in God or none at all?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Undecided means undecided.

Yes it does, but undecided also means that you haven't yet decided to believe the claim. Therefore, you don't believe the claim.

 

[leibowde84]

You have thought running in your head as the decision is pending.....there is no god.
unless you have more word salad......

such would be consideration.

Thought is not necessary to be without something.

 

[leibowde84]

The 'undecided' ones neither lack nor possess. It is very simple.

But be happy and stick to your half truth view. This topic is not worth spending so much time. The worthwhile thing is the OP.

So you are saying that it is possible to be with a belief and without a belief simultaneously? Your logic is flawed.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

A stone or a baby cannot take a considered position in this matter.

I know. So why do you keep bringing them up?

If you insist that stones are also atheists then so be it.

Actually, I never insisted that. You did. I've already clearly explained that, while I still think it's perfectly accurate, I don't think it means anything to do so. Why is it an issue? What is wrong with saying "a stone lacks a belief in a God"? Is it incorrect? Do stones believe in God?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The 'undecided' ones neither lack nor possess. It is very simple.

You're wrong. They lack by default. If you're in the line at McDonald's and you haven't decided what to order yet, then you haven't placed your order yet. If you're in a music shop and you haven't decided what instrument you are going to buy, then you haven't yet bought an instrument. If you're undecided as to whether or not got exists, you don't yet believe that God exists.

How are you not getting this?

 

[leibowde84]

If you are lacking anything.....the next man having......is better than you.

My son in law finally! got his drivers license.....four times he failed!
what a lump!

derogatory

This is utterly illogical too. If I "lack" or am "without" a specific disease, am I worse off than one who is "with" that disease?

 

[leibowde84]

Because consideration is part of the definition of a theist. And defining atheist in terms of theist would necessarily limit atheists to the same set.

Without this, meaningless propositions ensue. Orange becomes atheist. Love becomes atheist. Hate becomes atheist hell, even the word "theist" becomes atheist. Parameters are important.

This is incorrect due to the fact that the prefix "a" merely means to be "without". Thus, the state of being "without theism" is "atheism".