Atheism is not a default position

[Blastcat]

I'm fine with all of your logical explanations of why the words mean what they mean, etc.

But let's just take a look at the reasons someone might want to advocate the position that a baby, or indeed anyone in the "default" state we've been discussing, can be deemed "atheist".

Ok, great. Let's.

The reasons are, as far as I have seen, to further or strengthen the atheist argument or position.

THOSE are the only reasons you see?
Where are you LOOKING for your reasons?

And THIS is what I take issue with.

You seem to have an issue with your narrow view of atheists and logical analysis.

It is COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS to say babies and the completely uninformed make the realm of "atheists" a very strong category or large group, or that the community of people who consider themselves atheist is better off for having babies and the uninformed among our ranks.

Ok.. then don't SAY that. Atheists sure don't.
What's your point?

And therefore, it is completely useless to use that idea in any argument on behalf of the stance atheism.

Ok.. maybe that's why I never heard an atheist USE that argument.

The theists: "We've got God on our side!"
The atheists: "But we've got all the babies! Hahahahaha! Aren't we clever?"
And the answer... no. No you are not.

I completely agree that your opinion of atheist is that we are not clever.
Was that your POINT about the default position on truth claims?

 

[Thief]

Sure it is. But we never claimed otherwise. Many lack a belief in God without making that declaration. Choice between the two options you cite is not required.

If they say there is no God......line drawn...the label will stick.

 

[Blastcat]

Now you are playing a word game.

I believe the angelic have far less patience than I do in such matters.....

Belief has consequence.
Denial has consequence.

Shall we be adult about it?

Please EXPLAIN where the word game is, precisely.
I see NO word games on his part.

You talk about PATIENCE and CONSEQUENCE and being ADULTS ( a veiled ad hominem argument? ).. what has this to DO with the OP?

 

[Blastcat]

If they say there is no God......line drawn...the label will stick.

DO WE SAY THAT?
Please try to focus your attention on the real people trying to have a discussion with you.
Do the people you are NOW having a discussion with SAY these things?

Or do you want to debate THOSE people somewhere ELSE who say these things?

Do you KNOW what a straw man argument is?
Could you PLEASE try to avoid them in the future?

 

[Thief]

DO WE SAY THAT?
Please try to focus your attention on the real people trying to have a discussion with you.
Do the people you are NOW having a discussion with SAY these things?

Or do you want to debate THOSE people somewhere ELSE who say these things?

Do you KNOW what a straw man argument is?
Could you PLEASE try to avoid them in the future?

Make your declaration.....

 

[Blastcat]

Make your declaration.....

I don't believe that there is a god.
Consequently, I call myself an atheist.

 

[Thief]

I don't believe that there is a god.
Consequently, I call myself an atheist.

Line drawn....it is your belief.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

That is another straw man. We are talking about semantics, there is no agenda. And the reverse could be said about your position.

Like I said - the unfortunate truth is that I have only ever seen this argument (if you can call it that) that babies and the uninformed are by default "atheist" used when attempting to defend or strengthen atheism. I am of the very strong opinion that it doesn't matter one iota if babies or the uninformed are atheists. Not one bit. So why ever even bring it up?

 

[Thief]

Like I said - the unfortunate truth is that I have only ever seen this argument (if you can call it that) that babies and the uninformed are by default "atheist" used when attempting to defend or strengthen atheism. I am of the very strong opinion that it doesn't matter one iota if babies or the uninformed are atheists. Not one bit. So why ever even bring it up?

Let's drop the baby thing....again.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I completely agree that your opinion of atheist is that we are not clever.

*Sigh* - I am, myself a form of atheist.

Answer me this one question - because it is a moot point that babies and/or the uninformed are, by default, "atheist", why ever, EVER bring this up in conversation? Why?

 

[Blastcat]

Line drawn....it is your belief.

No, please try to FOCUS on my actual position and the actual WORDS that I used.

I don't believe in god.

NOT HAVING SOMETHING ISN'T EQUIVALENT TO HAVING SOMETHING.

Not HAVING a belief in god isn't equivalent to HAVING a belief that god doesn't exist.

I don't HAVE a belief that god doesn't exist.
Try to FOCUS.

I simply LACK the belief that a god exists.

X isn't EQUIVALENT TO NON X.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Let's drop the baby thing....again.

Oh - don't be a baby.

 

[Thief]

Oh - don't be a baby.

be adult.....

 

[Thief]

No, please try to FOCUS on my actual position and the actual WORDS that I used.

I don't believe in god.

NOT HAVING SOMETHING ISN'T EQUIVALENT TO HAVING SOMETHING.

Not HAVING a belief in god isn't equivalent to HAVING a belief that god doesn't exist.

I don't HAVE a belief that god doesn't exist.
Try to FOCUS.

I simply LACK the belief that a god exists.

X isn't EQUIVALENT TO NON X.

Word games are shallow.....
Disbelief is a subcategory of belief.

 

[Thief]

If you decided there is no God......that is your belief.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

be adult.....

Done. Dictionary:

"adult - noun - having attained full size and strength; grown up;"

I AM adult. See everyone - isn't the logic over semantics game fun?

 

[Thief]

Done. Dictionary:

"adult - noun - having attained full size and strength; grown up;"

I AM adult. See everyone - isn't the logic over semantics game fun?

so be a real adult and declare your belief......

 

[Blastcat]

*Sigh* - I am, myself a form of atheist.

Answer me this one question - because it is a moot point that babies and/or the uninformed are, by default, "atheist", why ever, EVER bring this up in conversation? Why?

I don't know. I didn't. Someone else brought up the subject of babies as examples of pre-cognitive or un-cognitve entities like rocks.

We are discussing whether the default position on truth claims should be YES to all truth claims or NO to all truth claims.

I say that the default SHOULD be no to all truth claims.

Now.. some THEISTS love to say that I HAVE a POSITIVE belief in a non god.

And someone introduced that ROCKS can't think so they can't have beliefs OR non beliefs, and then someone said something ELSE about rocks.

So.. yah.

Who cares?

The fact remains that LOGICALLY, if the default on TRUTH claims is YES.. then we would BELIEVE way too many false things as TRUTH claims cannot be all true. Some claims would be CONTRADICTORY.

You can't believe that X is the same as NOT X.

So, the default should be mathematically and logically NO .. to NOT believe in something until there is a good REASON to believe it.

Now, the only question is what is the CRITERIA we should use to know if something has a good reason to be believed as true or not.

But that's ANOTHER question.

I have yet to read anyone making a good case that the default on truth claims SHOULD BE YES.

A lot of words have been put down.. but A GOOD CASE FOR YES has NOT been put forward.

HOWEVER

I have demonstrated by EASY MATH why NO is the only reasonable position on truth claims.

the DEFAULT should LOGICALLY be to NOT believe just any old truth claim .....

Therefore, ATHEISM, which is to NOT believe in any old truth claim about some religion or not SHOULD be the default position UNTIL such a time as there is sufficient REASON ( depending on GOOD criteria ) to accept the truth claim AS true.

Otherwise, we are believing way too many contradictory claims without justification.

That is why I'm an atheist.
I won't DISCOUNT logic.

Because discounting LOGIC makes no SENSE.

Now, if people don't CARE if they make sense or not.. that's their decision to make.
I would urge them all TO care that they make sense.

I just think it's better to make sense than NOT.

 

[Blastcat]

so be a real adult and declare your belief......

Could you PLEASE stop insinuating that people aren't real ADULTS?

We don't need to be insulted.
thank you.

 

[Windwalker]

All that is required for atheism and disbelief is a "lack of faith or belief". That's the point.

Then Atheism = Ignorance of information?