Atheism is not a default position

[Windwalker]

You can't lack both belief and disbelief, they are mutually exclusive options. You either believe something or you do not believe something, you cannot do both or neither.

You most certainly can do neither. If you are unaware of something, you have no opinion. You lack either belief, or disbelief. You have to be aware of it first in order to believe or not believe. I do not disbelieve in things I am unaware of. Neither do you. Believing something requires thinking about it. Disbelieving something requires the same. Saying I am unaware of something is NOT saying I don't believe in it.

 

[Thief]

I
Who cares?

The fact remains that LOGICALLY, if the default on TRUTH claims is YES.. then we would BELIEVE way too many false things as TRUTH claims cannot be all true. Some claims would be CONTRADICTORY.

That requires thought and consideration......it is then a belief.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

so be a real adult and declare your belief......

I believe thusly: Making concretes declaration concerning the realm of spirituality and all that it does or does not entail, surrounding that which I can't possibly know the truth of is something I need to avoid.

 

[Thief]

I believe thusly: Making concretes declaration concerning the realm of spirituality and all that it does or does not entail, surrounding that which I can't possibly know the truth of is something I need to avoid.

Need proof?.....not required.
See Webster's......faith.

 

[Blastcat]

That requires thought and consideration......it is then a belief.

Yes, we know that people form their beliefs by thinking and considering the truth of a claim.

What is your point. That beliefs are beliefs?

What should be the DEFAULT position on beliefs?

Should we believe all truth claims by default, or should we NOT believe all truth claims by default?

Could you declare YOURSELF on that OP?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Need proof?.....not required.
See Webster's......faith.

Faith may be okay for some. Note that I left my statement saying that it is something "I" need to avoid. As in me, specifically. I can't understand the world any other way. It honestly hurts me to try.

 

[Ouroboros]

The only position on reality is strictly functioning at the impulse/instinct level. It would be like saying the default position of a cell is atheism. That's absurd.

Or a rock, or a book. The default position of a forum is atheism, so then this forum is atheistic. LOL!

I totally agree. It's absurd.

I used to think the default position was atheism too (as you know), but have changed my mind. Simply because (as you are pointing out) it's a stance of a person's opinions and views. Just the fact that we use a label to describe a person's views (atheism, theism, x-ism) is to point to some form of intellectual thought behind it. A person is atheist because experience, thoughts, reasons, and so on. It's a label to describe what a person holds after gone through a process of some kind (taught by parents, or loss of faith, or ...). It's not a label that describes a tabula rasa. There's a difference between Null and 0 (zero) as programmers often know.

 

[Blastcat]

Need proof?.....not required.
See Webster's......faith.

You don't think you need proof for your beliefs.
That's fine.

What is your default position on truth claims?
Do you believe every truth claim as a default, or do you NOT believe all truth claims as a default?

Can you declare yourself?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Then Atheism = Ignorance of information?

While obviously taken out of context, this is actually a hilarious take on all the "I AM LOGIC - BEEP BEEP, BOOP BOOP" posts flying all over the place. Nicely done.

 

[Thief]

Yes, we know that people form their beliefs by thinking and considering the truth of a claim.

What is your point. That beliefs are beliefs?

What should be the DEFAULT position on beliefs?

Should we believe all truth claims by default, or should we NOT believe all truth claims by default?

Could you declare YOURSELF on that OP?

Not believing is NOT a default.
You still have to think about it.....and then declare.

 

[Thief]

You don't think you need proof for your beliefs.
That's fine.

What is your default position on truth claims?
Do you believe every truth claim as a default, or do you NOT believe all truth claims as a default?

Can you declare yourself?

Cause and effect.
The universe (the one word) is the effect....God is the Cause.

 

[leibowde84]

If they say there is no God......line drawn...the label will stick.

That's OK. They aren't saying that God doesn't exist. They are merely saying that they lack a belief in God. They haven't been convinced.

 

[Blastcat]

Or a rock, or a book. The default position of a forum is atheism, so then this forum is atheistic. LOL!

I totally agree. It's absurd.

I used to think the default position was atheism too (as you know), but have changed my mind. Simply because (as you are pointing out) it's a stance of a person's opinions and views.

Yes, a belief is a stance on a person's opinions and views.

If I make claim X, for example.. do you BELIEVE that whatever X is.. HAS to be true.. or doesn't HAVE to be true?
What is your opinion on the truth value of X?

Just the fact that we use a label to describe a person's views (atheism, theism, x-ism) is to point to some form of intellectual thought behind it.

Yes, labels point to things.

A person is atheism because experience, thoughts, reasons, and so on.

That's true . GIVEN the claims made by theists, the atheist has given a negative assessment.

It's a label to describe what a person holds after gone through a process of some kind (taught by parents, or loss of faith, or ...). It's not a label that describes a tabula rasa.

We could quibble about the tabula rasa all year. That's not what atheism is about.

Atheism is the rejection of the truth claims made by theism.
Some atheists might have TERRIBLE reasoning abilities.. and come to their conclusion using TERRIBLE reasons.
That doesn't mean that ALL atheists have terrible reasons.

Some of us have pretty good reasons.
You know, because some of us learned about how to reason in the first place.

There's a difference between Null and 0 (zero) as programmers often know.

I like that.. please expand. This might be a KEY to why the default on truth claims should be YES as opposed to NO.. like atheists hold.

Can you please explain the difference between NULL and ZERO as it relates to truth claims?

 

[Thief]

I know...I'll just throw a baby at you.....catch!

Children that NEVER hear the word ....God.....NEVER have to think about it.....
no declaration possible...none made.

....of such as these is made the kingdom of heaven....
part of a famous quote.

They go back to their Creator......as a DEFAULT POSITION!

 

[Thief]

That's OK. They aren't saying that God doesn't exist. They are merely saying that they lack a belief in God. They haven't been convinced.

no it's not just ok......
consequence for any of that!

so I BELIEVE!

 

[leibowde84]

Then Atheism = Ignorance of information?

Not unless you have a very different meaning of the term "equal" than pretty much everyone else. Those that are coming from complete ignorance of God are atheists under the definition, but the term does not equate to that. I will assume that you were being facetious. It is the state of being "without atheism", or to "lack the belief in the existence of God". It can be applied to a baby who is merely ignorant of the concept of God, someone who is merely unconvinced by the evidence but is not willing to say that such a thing is impossible, or the one that insists that God could not possibly exist. They are all "atheist" by definition, and that is why there are subcategories of the term, just as "polytheism", "monotheism", "deism", etc. are all subcategories of "theism".

 

[leibowde84]

I know...I'll just throw a baby at you.....catch!

Children that NEVER hear the word ....God.....NEVER have to think about it.....
no declaration possible...none made.

....of such as these is made the kingdom of heaven....
part of a famous quote.

They go back to their Creator......as a DEFAULT POSITION!

No declaration is every made by the mere "lack of a belief" in anything. No knowledge of the subject is required to lack anything. I "lack" many things that I am not aware of existing.

 

[Windwalker]

@Ouroboros

Like this?

Absence of beliefs, either pro or con (aka. ignorance or unawareness) = null
Disbelief = 0
Belief = 1

 

[leibowde84]

no it's not just ok......
consequence for any of that!

so I BELIEVE!

Yet another irrelevant comment.

 

[leibowde84]

@Ouroboros

Like this?

Absence of beliefs, either pro or con (aka. ignorance or unawareness) = null
Disbelief = 0
Belief = 1

"Disbelief", according to its definition, includes "null", as "disbelief" includes the "lack of faith" in something.