Atheism is not anti-theism. Anti-theism is not atheism.

[Jim]

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

(edited to add the following)
I know that sometimes when people vilify and disparage atheists, they actually are talking about atheists, and sometimes disputes between people promoting God beliefs and other people actually are about God beliefs. That is not what I’m discussing here.
(end edit)

 

[Samael_Khan]

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people debating against God beliefs. Many people who debate against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never debate against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people debating against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people debating against God beliefs “atheists.”

I think it is because often the most vocal people in a certain group are the most extreme in their viewpoints.

 

[Jim]

I think it is because often the most vocal people in a certain group are the most extreme in their viewpoints.

I think that still misrepresents atheism and atheists because it could be understood as saying that all atheists are opposed to other people believing in God, but some are more extreme and vocal about it than others, wich I don’t think is true. I don’t think that all atheists are opposed to other people believing in God. That’s the misunderstanding that I’m discussing here, equating atheism with opposition to other people believing in God. I think that those are completely different and independent of each other.

 

[Valjean]

Alternative viewpoints always threaten traditional ones, especially when the tradition is based on...well... tradition, rather than research, evidence, trial or reason.

It must be very annoying when culturally or philosophically 'different' people show up and manage to hold their own, calling the superiority of one's own lifestyle or belief system into question.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It must be very annoying when culturally or philosophically 'different' people show up and manage to hold their own, calling the superiority of one's own lifestyle or belief system into question.

For some people, yes.

For me, I call it a Wednesday night I can drink to.

 

[Sunstone]

Alternative viewpoints always threaten traditional ones, especially when the tradition is based on...well... tradition, rather than research, evidence, trial or reason.

It must be very annoying when culturally or philosophically 'different' people show up and manage to hold their own, calling the superiority of one's own lifestyle or belief system into question.

Agreed. I think too that such meetings of "culturally or philosophically" different people have always had a tendency to become overheated. Very few of us super-chimps are wholly dispassionate when espousing our core beliefs to a skeptical or even hostile audience.

 

[Jim]

Alternative viewpoints always threaten traditional ones, especially when the tradition is based on...well... tradition, rather than research, evidence, trial or reason.

It must be very annoying when culturally or philosophically 'different' people show up and manage to hold their own, calling the superiority of one's own lifestyle or belief system into question.

Is that related somhow to atheism, anti-theism, or what I said about them in the OP?

 

[Jim]

Agreed. I think too that such meetings of "culturally or philosophically" different people have always had a tendency to become overheated. Very few of us super-chimps are wholly dispassionate when espousing our core beliefs to a skeptical or even hostile audience.

Is that related somehow to atheism, anti-theism, or what I said about them in the OP? If it is, then I’m not understanding what you and @Valjean are saying. All I can think of is that you might be thinking about is how people who believe in God react sometimes to people arguing and protesting against their beliefs. Is that what you and Valjean are discussing?

 

[Sunstone]

Is that related somehow to atheism, anti-theism, or what I said about them in the OP? If it is, then I’m not understanding what you and @Valjean are saying. All I can think of is that you might be thinking about is how people who believe in God react sometimes to people arguing and protesting against their beliefs. Is that what you and Valjean are discussing?

I cannot speak for @Valjean, but I was getting at how BOTH theists AND atheists can become confused about each other's positions due to the universal human tendency to become 'emotional' when dealing with opposition to one's own core beliefs.

By the way, it's hard to tell over the internet the tone in which something is said, but you seem upset. If that's so, I will gladly bow out of your thread with no hard feelings at all, if that will help.

 

[Jim]

I cannot speak for @Valjean, but I was getting at how BOTH theists AND atheists can become confused about each other's positions due to the universal human tendency to become 'emotional' when dealing with opposition to one's own core beliefs.

By the way, it's hard to tell over the internet the tone in which something is said, but you seem upset. If that's so, I will gladly bow out of your thread with no hard feelings at all, if that will help.

Sorry. No, I’m not upset.

 

[Jim]

Opposition between people promoting and defending God beliefs, and people arguing and protesting against God beliefs, is sometimes labeled as opposition between theists and atheists. I think that grossly misrepresents God beliefs, people who believe in God, atheists, and atheism.

Many people who believe in God do not try to promote and defend their God beliefs. Some of them are even opposed to that. Many people arguing and protesting against some God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. Sometimes people who argue and protest against God beliefs happen to be atheists, but their atheism is not the reaso for their anti-theism.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No. Atheism is not anti-theism, till the theists do not start thumping their books.

 

[sayak83]

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

Agreed

 

[Jim]

I see organized atheism, and people identifying as atheists, as responses to prejudice and discrimination against people who don’t believe in the God of Christianity. Obviously most of those people will have some unfriendly thoughts and feelings about God beliefs, but that isn’t because of their atheism. It’s because of the prejudice and discrimination against them.

 

[epronovost]

It's because of the prejudice and discrimination against them.

I don't think that's completely true. I never felt prejudice or discrimination against me for my atheism. It's a fairly common thing in my society, but I do consider theism and pretty much all spiritualist beliefs to be ridiculous. Having discussed and participated on atheist forums and organisations for about six years now, I'm far from the only one to think that theism is ridiculous without suffering a single day from prejudices and discrimination by theists.

 

[Jim]

I see organized atheism, and people identifying as atheists, as responses to prejudice and discrimination against people who don’t believe in the God of Christianity. Obviously most of those people will have some unfriendly thoughts and feelings about God beliefs, but that isn’t because of their atheism. It’s because of the prejudice and discrimination against them.

I don't think that's completely true. I never felt prejudice or discrimination against me for my atheism. It's a fairly common thing in my society, but I do consider theism and pretty much all spiritualist beliefs to be ridiculous. Having discussed and participated on atheist forums and organisations for about six years now, I'm far from the only one to think that theism is ridiculous without suffering a single day from prejudices and discrimination by theists.

I see that what I said could be easily misunderstood. I’m thinking that organized atheistm, and people identifying as atheists, are consequences of prejudice and discrimination against people who don’t believe in a Christian God. I wasn’t thinking that all the people in those movements are in them for that reason.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

Not all atheists are anti-theists, just like not all Americans are New Yorkers.

Still, there's no more issue with an anti-theist calling themselves an atheist than there is with a New Yorker calling themselves American.

If someone decides to stereotype all atheists - or even all anti-theists - based on their experience with a handful of anti-theists, that's on them. It would be just as unreasonable as stereotyping all Americans or all New Yorkers based on a handful of them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think it is because often the most vocal people in a certain group are the most extreme in their viewpoints.

Since when is anti-theism "extreme?"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I see that what I said could be easily misunderstood. I’m thinking that organized atheistm, and people identifying as atheists, are consequences of prejudice and discrimination against people who don’t believe in a Christian God. I wasn’t thinking that all the people in those movements are in them for that reason.

So... you want people who really are atheists to stop calling themselves "atheists" in order to accommodate the prejudices of theists?

Why would you put that burden on atheists? If you're going to tell someone what to do, why not tell theists not to be so prejudicial toward atheists?

 

[PureX]

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

I agree. But good luck trying to make that point stick. "Atheist" has become the label for yet another one of those 'social tribes' among us, and even though the label is misplaced, the tribe has now adopted it as their own, and will fight to the death to hold onto it. Because to 'attack' the label is seen as attacking the the tribe, now. That tribe, of course, is the tribe of 'religion-haters' calling themselves "atheists". People who cannot and will not recognize the difference between religion and theology.