Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If there are any rules, they are not the rules Christians think they are...
God does not chisel anything in stone, He sends updates.
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Atheist becomes a Christian after 40 years
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
God does not chisel anything in stone, He sends updates.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
That is as it should be... Nobody should believe in God based upon emotion, but rather upon reason.
That is why God gave us a rational mind.
What is that argument?
I cannot see those religions as they are practiced as rational either. Their scriptures contain the eternal spiritual truths but the way they have been interpreted distorted that truth for the religions...
I can only believe in God because of what the Bab and Baha'u'llah wrote about God, as it makes logical sense to me... Nothing mushy and gushy for me, I have no real loving feelings towards God, as this Earth he created is not something I am too fond of... but I am compelled to believe in God because it makes sense that God exists and that God is as Baha'u'llah portrayed Him, lock, stock and barrel...
KCA is the Kalam Cosmological Argument. It is used for proof of the existence of God.
It goes:
P1: whatever begins to exist has a cause.
P2: the universe began to exist.
C: therefore the universe has a cause to its existence.
From the conclusion they reason that the universe's cause must be spaceless, infinite, timeless, immaterial, eternal, extremely powerful, and personal.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Truly, the world needs more with that mentality and those who will listen. Even in the mental health field, its widely acknowledged LGBT teens are, as a group, at risk. But the reasons why, its like an elephant in the room nobody wants to acknowledge, and thats because so many problems the LGBT community come directly from the Church and Christians. And in that field, its not good to fail to understand that someone youre working with may be understandably hostile towards religion. But it goes ignored that the Church basically acted like an emotional cattle prod and acid bath and probably did cause more of their problems than anything else.If there are any rules, they are not the rules Christians think they are...
God does not chisel anything in stone, He sends updates.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I can understand why people do not know what to believe and I think it is partly because they are afraid to believe anything lest they end up back where they were before.
But not believing anything because you do not know what to believe is not equivalent to hating God. You cannot hate a God you do not believe exists, although some atheists hate the idea of God, which is understandable, after what they have been through.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I found it easier just shirk them. People wont understand it right, challenge your "authenticity," and insert what they want you to believe anyways. Atheists claim me, theists claim me, none of them understand me, so I just quit using labels.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Okay thanks... That is a reasonable argument...
Related to that, you might like this thread I posted a couple of weeks ago,...
Why Baha’i? It Comes Down to Five Questions
It was based upon this blog:
Why Baha’i? It Comes Down to Five Questions
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I cannot imagine Jesus behaving that way towards anyone.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You really dont have to, since based on the original language Jesus seemed to have no issue with the Roman centaurs special male friend/lover. But, rather just went about his business doing his thing and seeing a human being so far before anything else.I cannot imagine Jesus behaving that way towards anyone.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I go with the creative blind force option. That makes the most sense to me.
I do enjoy a lot of what i read in Gleanings though.
One option i am considering is that all of earth life deserves to be here the way that they are made. Perhaps this is a test, and trial for fitness to an Ultimate Supreme reality.
I recognize that there are Supreme moral truthes that exist by virtue of being alive and being able to consider those truthes. I find that objective moral truth is there for those whom truly desire to find it. The objective moral truth is to love every virtue, and eschew every vice. That is the simplicity of it. And those whom dont seek after such a thing can become easily blinded to it. That leaves two paths that every person can travel, into deeper hells, or higher ,more compassionate realities. Eventually if there is a Supreme reality, then all life will eventually be reconciled to the Supreme. And evil will eventually become defeated, and become no more possible.
God would simply let the evil game play out, and by Spirit guide those whom are ready to be guided, and by Spirit handle those whom are not ready differently. Each person according to their own laws of self governance.
And if everyone on earth truly deserves to be here because of our dangerous potentials, then we best ought to get on track with what is Supreme and fall no further. Its a dangerous world. Good people get very bad things happening to them. But a Divine Authority would able see whats best for each individual, and a law not unlike karma does exist in the world.
However i am not going to tempt fate, and venture to bad places, or wrong parts of town to go proving anything.
I believe so yes.
As stated above I believe so. Of course that doesn't guarantee anything. Even me being a Christian doesn't guarantee anything either as well.
As for the OP. I don't really want to tackle the whole argument. But I do want to address this.
Is it better? That's something each individual would have to answer for themselves. So I won't speak for them. Life is better for me (atheist for 30 years) after I accepted God.
I beg to differ though about what Christianity teaches. Jesus even said ok the cross as he was bleeding out.
Like 23 39:43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
So yeah it's never too late to convert. As I stated above it doesn't guarantee anything. But it will get your "foot in the door" so to speak.
I listen to Christian radio on my bike and between songs people call in and tell stories. A few weeks ago a man called in with a story of how he had just become a Christian after 40 years of being an atheist.
Is it better that this man at least believes in God now? I am not so sure. I think it might be better for atheists to remain atheists rather than becoming Christians because I believe that the doctrines of the Church are false. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against belief in Jesus and all His wonderful parables and teachings, but that is not what Christianity teaches. It teaches that Jesus is God, original sin, being saved and forgiven by the cross sacrifice, and the bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus from heaven on some poufy clouds.
Whereas I believe in the cross sacrifice, I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe there is anything to be saved from except our attachment to selfish desires and the world. Moreover, I do not believe in heaven and hell as places we go to, contingent solely upon whether we accepted Jesus as our Savior. I believe that the Christian doctrines are false, and not what Jesus taught. They are concoctions of the Church which came about as the result of misinterpretations of scripture, not to mention the influences of Paul, which changed the course of Christianity.
So, in my opinion, Christianity as it is believed by most Christians is a false religion. At least there is hope that an atheist might someday find another pathway to God, and even if he didn’t, I think that if an atheist has good principles and characterand leads the life that Jesus taught, he can receive the mercy and pardon of God in the afterlife and come to believe in God.
I apologize if I hurt any Christian’s feelings but I have seen far too many atheists who have been damaged by the Bible and Christianity and I have empathy for them. Christianity is the primary reason there are atheists.
I cannot side with Christianity because it has hurt so many people. Some of these atheists are good friends I met on forums and I have known them for years. They escaped Christianity, so they are doing just fine, they are good people. There is no reason they have to believe that Jesus died for their sins in order to have a chance at heaven. Websites like the following are beyond disgusting…
How To Get To Heaven
How to get to heaven - Believe the truth!
The truth is that there is only one way for any human being to get to heaven and that is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
My experience over many years is to seriously question such anecdotal 'call in' testimonials.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Well, pretty much everything you believe lines up with what I believe, less the religion...
You seem to have figured it out on your own...
That is what I meant by using the higher rational faculty God gave you...
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Life was better for me after about 42 years of rejecting God and that as after I came to be a Baha'i.
It is better, but it is still difficult. The challenges for believers are greater than they are for atheists because we are supposed to trust God.
I believe in the cross sacrifice, but I do not believe that in the original sin of Adam and Eve is why Jesus chose to sacrifice Himself.
"the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth" did not happen because Adam and Eve ate apples from a tree.
“That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 75-76
I think your foot will get through the door because you have humility... It is the feet of arrogant Christians who are so sure they are saved that will not get in the door...So yeah it's never too late to convert. As I stated above it doesn't guarantee anything. But it will get your "foot in the door" so to speak.
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I think your foot will get through the door because you have humility... It is the feet of arrogant Christians who are so sure they are saved that will not get in the door...
Well your right about that. I won't tackle anymore of your argument because we kinda see things the same a bit. The differences aren't worth arguing over imo.
A lot of Christian's these days push more people away from God than they bring in. Even though, imo, it's not their job to bring in people. But talk with people and open the door and invite em in maybe? But all this trying to force people, arrogance, etc only pushes people away.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is a good attitude to have. It is not good to argue but rather try to find points of agreement...
The only reason I get down on Christianity is because I see all the atheists it has hurt, but it is people hurting people, and there is no need to do that to make one's beliefs known.
And the other thing is, who is it in these days who does not already know about Jesus?
The "good news" of the gospel is not new news, it is old news.
But maybe with some urging some people have become Christians, so maybe that is why they want to urge others. Their heart might be in the right place, but they should not threaten people with hell and such.
I listen to Christian radio on my bike and between songs people call in and tell stories. A few weeks ago a man called in with a story of how he had just become a Christian after 40 years of being an atheist.
Is it better that this man at least believes in God now? I am not so sure. I think it might be better for atheists to remain atheists rather than becoming Christians because I believe that the doctrines of the Church are false. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against belief in Jesus and all His wonderful parables and teachings, but that is not what Christianity teaches. It teaches that Jesus is God, original sin, being saved and forgiven by the cross sacrifice, and the bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus from heaven on some poufy clouds.
Whereas I believe in the cross sacrifice, I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe there is anything to be saved from except our attachment to selfish desires and the world. Moreover, I do not believe in heaven and hell as places we go to, contingent solely upon whether we accepted Jesus as our Savior. I believe that the Christian doctrines are false, and not what Jesus taught. They are concoctions of the Church which came about as the result of misinterpretations of scripture, not to mention the influences of Paul, which changed the course of Christianity.
So, in my opinion, Christianity as it is believed by most Christians is a false religion. At least there is hope that an atheist might someday find another pathway to God, and even if he didn’t, I think that if an atheist has good principles and characterand leads the life that Jesus taught, he can receive the mercy and pardon of God in the afterlife and come to believe in God.
I apologize if I hurt any Christian’s feelings but I have seen far too many atheists who have been damaged by the Bible and Christianity and I have empathy for them. Christianity is the primary reason there are atheists.
I cannot side with Christianity because it has hurt so many people. Some of these atheists are good friends I met on forums and I have known them for years. They escaped Christianity, so they are doing just fine, they are good people. There is no reason they have to believe that Jesus died for their sins in order to have a chance at heaven. Websites like the following are beyond disgusting…
How To Get To Heaven
How to get to heaven - Believe the truth!
The truth is that there is only one way for any human being to get to heaven and that is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
How do you know Christians, Baha'is or atheists are any better or any worse than anyone else?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't know... That is why I said I was not so sure, but I think it might be better for atheists to remain atheists rather than becoming Christians because I believe.....
Only God knows what is better for anyone... All I have is an opinion.
What works for one person may not work for another. It is almost impossible to make a judgment about what is the best worldview for a complete stranger. I know many people who are either atheists, Christians or Baha’is I really admire and respect.
There are certainly those here who have had adverse reactions and experiences with the Christian Faith. That doesn’t make Christianity wrong or a false religion anymore than Christians having a different theological perspective to us.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It does still stand, however, that what the world has known as Christianity for hundreds of years pretty much only exists as it does because of the Nicene Counsel, who took it upon themselves to officially decide what books will go in the Bible, that there is a trinity and Jesus is god, and so many other issues that basically became blasphemous to consider any other way than what the Church promoted, before, during, and after the many reformations and schisms.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I have a general opinion but that is all it is.... Like I said, only God knows what is better for any individual.
I believe that Christianity as it is generally taught by the Church and believed by Christians is a false religion. Even if Christians are the most exemplary people on Earth, that does not change my opinion about the false doctrines of Christianity. This was explained by George Townshend better that I can ever explain it. He was a Christian clergyman who resigned his orders after 40 years to become a Baha’i. I think he knows a lot more about Christianity than I do. He explains what happened to Christianity in his book entitled Christ and Baha'u'llah in the Chapter entitled The False Prophets
If the Baha'i Faith is true, Christianity has to be false and vice versa because they contradict each other in many ways...
Jesus was either the Only Way to God for all time or not...
Baha'u'llah was either the Comforter and the Return of Christ or not...
You cannot have it both ways.
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