Atheistic Double Standard?

[Sonofason]

I know it may be unreasonable, but I'm gonna put my money on Pascal.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No worries. If there is a god, and you believe in the wrong god, you're an atheist.

Erm, no, you'd still be a theist. Whether the belief is correct or not, you still hold the belief that there is a God of some kind.

 

[1137]

What's more fascinating is how you manage to accomplish this bizarre non-sequiturs.

Hey, I'm not the one who said atheist don't need to find no-theism more likely than theism. Pay attention to things you say!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Some do.

....and it depends upon the area in which those claims occur.

For instance, there are those non-believers who are simply that: non-believers. They 'don't believe' in a deity. Now these folks aren't making any claims; they are simply waiting for someone to prove, to their satisfaction, that some deity does exist.

BUT...

There are those atheists who take that one step too far; those who claim 'there is no such thing as a god."

Oops. THAT is making a claim: a very big one, and they've just assumed the burden of proof.


Then of course atheists are just people who have an opinion about religion and deity. These people are just as likely to have weird unsubstantiated beliefs in other areas as any theist: global warming caused mostly by people and the sky is going to fall if we don't stop the evolution of earth's climate cycles in its tracks, ancient aliens, alien abduction complete with anal probes, faster than light travel (oh, wait, I'd like to see that one), telepathy, telekinesis, clairvoyance, dowsing, Obama isn't a true American citizen, Bush arranged the destruction of the Twin Towers, Kennedy was killed by the CIA because he found out that the CIA killed Marilyn Monroe, Clinton arranged the murder of his investment broker, Republicans want to push grandma over the cliff...yadda, yadda, yadda.

I don't see any superior moral, ethical or intellectual superiority in someone simply because he 'doesn't believe' in a deity. 'Course, the same thing is true for theists. I'm an equal opportunity curmudgeon.

I assume what valjean meant was that non-believers don't necessarily have to make any claims, but you are correct. There are plenty of atheists who make unsubstantiated claims and state positions of belief with regards to the non-existence of God.

 

[Sonofason]

Erm, no, you'd still be a theist. Whether the belief is correct or not, you still hold the belief that there is a God of some kind.

Yeah, but at that point such categorizations would be moot. Of what value is a belief in the wrong God? Could such a person have greater value in the eyes of God than someone believing in no god? I don't think so.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Hey, I'm not the one who said atheist don't need to find no-theism more likely than theism. Pay attention to things you say!

I'm not even sure you've understood a single argument I've made. Attention is secondary to comprehension. I suggest you focus on the latter.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yeah, but at that point such categorizations would be moot.

Not really. It's still an accurate description of a position.

Of what value is a belief in the wrong God?

It could be of almost any value, really. But that doesn't matter - the fact is that it is still theism.

Could such a person have greater value in the eyes of God than someone believing in no god? I don't think so.

Regardless of what you believe God would think of them, that doesn't make them not a theist.

 

[Sonofason]

Hahaha wow, how many time do I have to remind you that you're the one who stated beliefs = claims? I feel like I tell this to at least one atheist every day, but when you want to reject logic or doesn't the logic was invented. Do you really not see the disconnect between "I see no reason to believe in gods" and "I believe it is more likely that there are no gods than one or more god?"



Alrighty, so beliefs and verbs are logically equivalent. #atheistlogic

Saying "atheism is a belief" is like saying "not collecting stamps is a hobby".

Actually, I believe that this statement is a bit unfair.
Sometimes atheist do have a belief that no God exists. And having such a belief is not quite the same as someone suggesting that they simply lack a belief in a god or gods.
But now that you mention it, I quite like the idea of not collecting stamps, and I am going to make that my new hobby. Thanks for the great idea.

 

[Sonofason]

Not really. It's still an accurate description of a position.


It could be of almost any value, really. But that doesn't matter - the fact is that it is still theism.


Regardless of what you believe God would think of them, that doesn't make them not a theist.

I guess that's true, however pointless it is.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Actually, I believe that this statement is a bit unfair.
Sometimes atheist do have a belief that no God exists. And having such a belief is not quite the same as someone suggesting that they simply lack a belief in a god or gods.

But the fact that there are atheists who DO have beliefs doesn't make atheism ITSELF a belief.

But now that you mention it, I quite like the idea of not collecting stamps, and I am going to make that my new hobby. Thanks for the great idea.

I gave up the hobby of not collecting stamps when I was much younger, but I took it up again a year later. You should see my uncollected stamp collection!

 

[1137]

Quite strange that all these posts go by and all the atheists/physicalists have yet to put forth any evidence.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I can't help but notice that you didn't actually give an answer.


Personal allusions are not arguments.


Actually, we're talking entirely in the context of the evidence being requested by atheists that you alluded to. Obviously those atheists aren't asking for evidence that isn't convincing to them, or is of an entirely personal or subjective nature. They are asking for empirical facts that lend credibility to the claim. You can't simply change which definition of evidence you are using when the initial one being used was very clear.


You got it the wrong way around, grasshopper. Facts lend credibility to conclusions - you don't use facts to validate facts, that makes no sense.

"You got it the wrong way around, grasshopper. Facts lend credibility to conclusions - you don't use facts to validate facts, that makes no sense."

You really need to learn how to read.

 

[Sonofason]

But the fact that there are atheists who DO have beliefs doesn't make atheism ITSELF a belief.

No, but the fact that there are atheists who do have beliefs about the existence of God suggests that the definition of atheism as you see it is flawed, and that atheism can be and often is a belief. And when we do change the definition as you know it, we will have you to thank for exposing the lie that surrounds atheism and those who cling to such a belief. As a matter of fact...from now on the definition of atheism includes the belief that no god exists. Thank you.

I gave up the hobby of not collecting stamps when I was much younger, but I took it up again a year later. You should see my uncollected stamp collection!

That is great. But I'd rather see all of the stamps that you collected when you gave up not collecting stamps for that one year.

 

[Sonofason]

Quite strange that all these posts go by and all the atheists/physicalists have yet to put forth any evidence.

How can you expect them to put forth evidence for the non-existence of God, when you know very well that the only evidence that they have for the non-existence of God is the absence of any evidence whatsoever.

 

[Willamena]

But now that you mention it, I quite like the idea of not collecting stamps, and I am going to make that my new hobby. Thanks for the great idea.

It's actively been my hobby for the last ten years. I'm still not sure we are making a point.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Actually, I believe that this statement is a bit unfair.
Sometimes atheist do have a belief that no God exists. And having such a belief is not quite the same as someone suggesting that they simply lack a belief in a god or gods.
But now that you mention it, I quite like the idea of not collecting stamps, and I am going to make that my new hobby. Thanks for the great idea.

What's being missed here is that atheism is a response, not a belief or position.

If a notion of there being a God was never put forward, atheism wouldn't even have manifested as a "belief" to begin with.

It's impossible to establish atheism as a system of belief in a non belief if the concept of there being a God wasn't first introduced beforehand by which atheism is responsive to that.

Not the other way around.




.

 

[Sonofason]

It's actively been my hobby for the last ten years. I'm still not sure we are making a point.

It seems to me that you got the point. Not collecting stamps can be a hobby, if you make it your hobby. In the same way, we can define atheism as we see fit. Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheism can also be defined as a belief that no god exists. It's really up to you.

 

[Sonofason]

What's being missed here is that atheism is a response, not a belief or position.

If a notion of there being a God was never put forward, atheism wouldn't even have manifested as a "belief" to begin with.

It's impossible to establish atheism as a system of belief in a non belief if the concept of there being a God wasn't first introduced beforehand by which atheism is responsive to that.

Not the other way around.




.

You are wrong...Atheism is the belief that no god exists. And if you claim to be an atheist, it is your duty and responsibility to provide evidence to support this unfounded faith of yours.

 

[Sonofason]

It's actively been my hobby for the last ten years. I'm still not sure we are making a point.

And now I have begun establishing the true definition of atheism. I hope you will support me in this endeavor.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Quite strange that all these posts go by and all the atheists/physicalists have yet to put forth any evidence.

For what? Putting forth evidence for something that isn't even there?

Ok......