Atheistic Logic

[kmkemp]

I have heard more than I care to an argument that goes along these lines:

God is sadistic so why should I worship Him? If he tortures people for eternity, then I would gladly choose hell rather than spend eternity with Him. There is no justice or love or mercy in an infinite punishment for a finite crime (sin).

I hope that was an adequate paraphrase. The line of arguments quickly develops into a mockery of Bible verses about God's unsearchable ways. My purpose is to ask a question. Why do you (if you dare to use the above arguments) dare to question God? Let's look at the situation another way. One of two things are true.

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

I hope it is obvious that if God doesn't exist, we need not make assumptions about what He would or would not do. It is a nonissue. He doesn't exist. That is all that needs to be said. You can't prove that He doesn't exist by telling what you think He would do if He did exist and showing why that that doesn't actually happen.

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

Romans 9:20
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

If God exists and He created you, then your logic and mind is only a result of His higher mind designing you thus. The key word there is 'higher'. If God exists, then His ways are surely better than ours. After all, we are still incapable of creating anything. An atheist would do much better to not dabble in philosophical nonsense such as this, in my opinion.
[/FONT]

 

[Storm]

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

Very simple. We are the ones facing infinite torture because of those decisions. If He doesn't want to be questioned, He should live up to His own standards.

EDIT: For the record, I am not an atheist, but I have the same objection.

 

[Papersock]

I hope it is obvious that if God doesn't exist, we need not make assumptions about what He would or would not do. It is a nonissue. He doesn't exist. That is all that needs to be said. You can't prove that He doesn't exist by telling what you think He would do if He did exist and showing why that that doesn't actually happen.

Even if he doesn't exist, people still worship this concept of god. And other people are likely to question the morals of a person who is willing to worship such a god.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

If God exists and He created you, then your logic and mind is only a result of His higher mind designing you thus. The key word there is 'higher'. If God exists, then His ways are surely better than ours. After all, we are still incapable of creating anything. An atheist would do much better to not dabble in philosophical nonsense such as this, in my opinion.[/FONT]

If God exists then he does not live up to his own standards of morality and forgiveness. Disagreeing with the moral practices of a god (or ruler) is a valid reason not to worship him. You can't be forced to respect someone.

Anyone should be allowed to dabble in any philosophical issues they want.

 

[kmkemp]

But I don't understand how you telling God what He should or should not do helps you in any way. The fact is that you do exist and that is not going to change. If God does exist and you choose to not believe in Him, you will be punished all the same no matter how hypocritical you think He might be. If He doesn't exist, then you need not contemplate what He should or should not do.

edit: this was a reply to Storm. Sorry, Papersock is quick. $

 

[Jeremiah]

If He doesn't exist,

I find it refreshing you are willing to ponder the concept.

 

[Storm]

But I don't understand how you telling God what He should or should not do helps you in any way. The fact is that you do exist and that is not going to change. If God does exist and you choose to not believe in Him, you will be punished all the same no matter how hypocritical you think He might be. If He doesn't exist, then you need not contemplate what He should or should not do.

It's not about helping myself; it's about having standards. I do not submit to abusers. If that means I go to Hell, I go with head held high, because I will not abandon my ethics out of fear.

Luckily, I do not believe God is so petty and ignoble as to damn me, or anyone who seeks truth and lives morally.

 

[Bishka]

Luckily, I do not believe God is so petty and ignoble as to damn me, or anyone who seeks truth and lives morally.

Neither do I.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

It's not about helping myself; it's about having standards. I do not submit to abusers. If that means I go to Hell, I go with head held high, because I will not abandon my ethics out of fear.

I would suggest to you, Storm, that the only reason you can say this is because you don't take the possibility of eternal, unimaginably horrible torture very seriously.

I think kmkemp is absolutely right. If God is defined such that whatever He says and does is an absolute standard of goodness, and if the god of the Bible exists, then by definition sending people to hell and killing innocents and so forth is a good thing. An atheist appealing to how awful such a god would be if he existed is just as unconvincing as a theist appealing to how awful it would be if there were no god.

However, when not being used as an argument against god's existence, I think a critique of the morality of the god of the Bible, especially in the context of a mythological figure, is perfectly valid.

 

[ChristineES]

There is one more thing: Only God knows our spirits. Since I believe in God, I can say that God knows more about our spirits than ourselves. God knows when we deny Him with just our bodies but accept Him in our spirit. He also knows we someone denies Him with both spirit and body. And lastly He knows who accepts Him with his body but not with his spirit.

 

[Buttercup]

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

If God exists, how do we know which book truly represents what he/she/it wants?[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Smoke]

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

I have never questioned God's decisions; in fact, I've never heard any decisions from God. I do question (in fact, I reject) the unfounded assertions of people like yourself about God.

I don't believe that God exists, but let's pretend that he does. Doesn't he deserve the benefit of the doubt? And, when speaking of such a powerful and venerable personage, wouldn't it be prudent to give him the benefit of the doubt? How could I dare to believe, without proof, that he's the kind of insane sadist you claim he is?

 

[Jeremiah]

If God exists, how do we know which book truly represents what he/she/it wants?

If god really did exists than he/she would not use books. The creator would have simply made us with the capability to do everything that he/she wants and the inability to do the things he/she does not want us to do.

That is of couse assuming god is omnipotent.

 

[Jeremiah]

O wait I forgot the free will rebuttal.

ok how about this

God would have placed the answers inside us, not a book.

 

[Papersock]

It seems to me that if God really is omnipotent and omniscient, there has to be some way for him to save everyone while still allowing them free will.
Is there really absolutely no way this is possible?

 

[Buttercup]

If god really did exists than he/she would not use books. The creator would have simply made us with the capability to do everything that he/she wants and the inability to do the things he/she does not want us to do.

That is of couse assuming god is omnipotent.

And assuming God would be a controlling nag.

 

[Fluffy]

In defining this god to be a being that cannot be questioned, you have satisfied your conclusion by limiting the scope of the argument.

Yes, if that god does exist... but that particular piece of "atheistic logic" would then still be applicable to every other god on offering. One must also consider why only one's own god, who one happens to agree with in full, is the only god who must not be questioned. What would you do if an unquestionable god told you to do things you found to be very questionable?

So I guess I fully agree with you as long as you aren't making implications along the lines of "therefore the atheistic position is defeated/weakened".

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

IWhy do you (if you dare to use the above arguments) dare to question God? Let's look at the situation another way. One of two things are true.

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

I hope it is obvious that if God doesn't exist, we need not make assumptions about what He would or would not do.

Nonsense. God is an inference.

 

[Phil Lawton]

I have heard more than I care to an argument that goes along these lines:

God is sadistic so why should I worship Him? If he tortures people for eternity, then I would gladly choose hell rather than spend eternity with Him. There is no justice or love or mercy in an infinite punishment for a finite crime (sin).

I hope that was an adequate paraphrase. The line of arguments quickly develops into a mockery of Bible verses about God's unsearchable ways. My purpose is to ask a question. Why do you (if you dare to use the above arguments) dare to question God? Let's look at the situation another way. One of two things are true.

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

I hope it is obvious that if God doesn't exist, we need not make assumptions about what He would or would not do. It is a nonissue. He doesn't exist. That is all that needs to be said. You can't prove that He doesn't exist by telling what you think He would do if He did exist and showing why that that doesn't actually happen.

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

Romans 9:20
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If God exists and He created you, then your logic and mind is only a result of His higher mind designing you thus. The key word there is 'higher'. If God exists, then His ways are surely better than ours. After all, we are still incapable of creating anything. An atheist would do much better to not dabble in philosophical nonsense such as this, in my opinion.[/FONT]

Sorry, I can't see the logic in this post - maybe you should have asked an atheist for guidance in writing a more feasible, authentic, atheistic argument.

If one denies that a god exists, how can one be accepting of a hell and its "infinite punishment" for that non-belief?

And to say that this same god put the logic of atheistic denial into the minds of atheists...please.

 

[Phil Lawton]

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

This line of reasoning/argument annoys me. Are we seriously to accept to the existence of an omnipotent being is 50/50? Really? How are those odds arrived at?

One might as well say "I know that the entire universe is actually made from plum jam and presided over by a giant wasp called Hit-Shed. I cannot prove this to you, but you cannot disprove it, either....so the odds of me being correct are 50/50."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This line of reasoning/argument annoys me. Are we seriously to accept to the existence of an omnipotent being is 50/50? Really? How are those odds arrived at?

Actually, he said no such thing.