Atheistic Logic

[worshiper]

master .. .you sense anger in the thread and its tilting the balance of the force :sw:

 

[kmkemp]

What exactly is ludicrous about having the courage of your convictions, kemp?

There is a point where courage meets stupidity and that line is drawn before eternal punishment. It is courageous for me to stand up to someone mugging an old lady, but it is dumb and illogical for me to stand up to the mafia attacking an old lady.

 

[kmkemp]

You are using the same old "It's better to belief in God than not to argument." knkemp why do you find it so impossible to belief that others truly do see being with the Christian God as the worst punishment possible?

I would just like to point out that I have said nothing of this sort (gee, sounds similar to my last post). I will challenge you once more to point out anything like this.

 

[rojse]

Everyone that uses the argument that it is better to worship God than to burn in Hell for eternity, by that reasoning, should have worked with Adolf Hitler in WWII. Hitler also promised his followers a better future, and punished those that stood up against his tyranny with persecution and execution.

 

[Storm]

There is a point where courage meets stupidity and that line is drawn before eternal punishment. It is courageous for me to stand up to someone mugging an old lady, but it is dumb and illogical for me to stand up to the mafia attacking an old lady.

Of course. Better to just let her be murdered, that's what Jesus would do.

Disgusting.

 

[Darkness]

There is a point where courage meets stupidity and that line is drawn before eternal punishment. It is courageous for me to stand up to someone mugging an old lady, but it is dumb and illogical for me to stand up to the mafia attacking an old lady.

All right, so God is an evil mafia don and we are the ones at His mercy. Thank you for admitting God is an evil bast*rd and you are merely following Him to escape His wrath.

 

[kmkemp]

All right, so God is an evil mafia don and we are the ones at His mercy. Thank you for admitting God is an evil bast*rd and you are merely following Him to escape His wrath.

These are atheist arguments. I am only here to dismantle them.

 

[Tiberius]

These are atheist arguments. I am only here to dismantle them.

And yet, I've never seen this done by anyone....

 

[s2a]

I have heard more than I care to an argument that goes along these lines:

God is sadistic so why should I worship Him? If he tortures people for eternity, then I would gladly choose hell rather than spend eternity with Him. There is no justice or love or mercy in an infinite punishment for a finite crime (sin).

I hope that was an adequate paraphrase. The line of arguments quickly develops into a mockery of Bible verses about God's unsearchable ways. My purpose is to ask a question. Why do you (if you dare to use the above arguments) dare to question God? Let's look at the situation another way. One of two things are true.

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

I hope it is obvious that if God doesn't exist, we need not make assumptions about what He would or would not do. It is a nonissue. He doesn't exist. That is all that needs to be said. You can't prove that He doesn't exist by telling what you think He would do if He did exist and showing why that that doesn't actually happen.

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

Romans 9:20
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

If God exists and He created you, then your logic and mind is only a result of His higher mind designing you thus. The key word there is 'higher'. If God exists, then His ways are surely better than ours. After all, we are still incapable of creating anything. An atheist would do much better to not dabble in philosophical nonsense such as this, in my opinion.
[/FONT]

1) Of which "god" do you speak of/for? I may deny some claimed deities, yet cherish others. Could you specify which "god" IS God (for clarification purposes)?

2) Let's suppose that I retain no beliefs in supernatural deities/entities/forces. If I question other's rationale in support of their own faith-based beliefs, how does my lack of requisite faith color any applications of logic or critical thinking? Does a lack of fear/hope of divine retribution/reward presuppose some failing bias in applications of reason? If so, how so? If not, why not?

3) If you conclude that a close friend retains an unhealthy addiction to alcohol/drugs, do you feel obligated to intervene on behalf of their better interests, or lasting health? Why, or why not?

4) My friend believes in "ghosts". I do not. My friend believes he is being tormented and "haunted" by ghostly influences that are affecting his very psyche and prospects of happiness.
What shall I do?
Shall I insist that "ghosts" do not exist?
Should I inquire as to why my friend earnestly believes that ghosts are real?
Might I reasonably ask to "see" the ghost (for myself) that allegedly haunts/taunts my friend so?
Should I just leave his ongoing distress to his own resolutions?
What if ghosts aren't "real"? Is my friend to be committed to a padded room...for his own safety, and for the safety of others?

5) Should I expect ghosts to punish me for my disbelief? If so, how would I know when it occurs? How might I convince my friend that I too was haunted by ghosts? What would he accept as evidential proof? Would his current perspective lend any bias in fair conclusion of my claim?

One of two things are true.

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

I'll check option #2, for now.

I'll also ask, does God need to exist in order to reasonably explain our natural world? If so, how so...and in what way?

If the natural world can be explained absent any attributable supernaturalistic cause/effect influences...then what need or purpose does a "god" serve?

If a "god" exists, does it matter?
If so, in what definable way?
If not, then what of it?

An existent god may defy any "proofs"...but critical reason must remain accountable, and fairly laden with burdens of demonstrable evidences of objectively attainable/measurable phenomena/circumstance.

It's not enough to claim that a "god" exists to a unbelieving skeptic.

Why must a "god" exist? Explain that. Surely such a concept can be reduced to an either/or choice of personal will and substantive critical review.

When you do eventually and successfully provide explanation of the "why" in a compelling fashion, you might hen expect a few million heretical converts in the offing...or a few more questions...just to be clear. ;-)

 

[doppelganger]

One of two things are true.
1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

Both of those statements are true and both are false.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have heard more than I care to an argument that goes along these lines:

God is sadistic so why should I worship Him? If he tortures people for eternity, then I would gladly choose hell rather than spend eternity with Him. There is no justice or love or mercy in an infinite punishment for a finite crime (sin).

I hope that was an adequate paraphrase. The line of arguments quickly develops into a mockery of Bible verses about God's unsearchable ways. My purpose is to ask a question. Why do you (if you dare to use the above arguments) dare to question God? Let's look at the situation another way. One of two things are true.

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

I don't think that you've presented the real alternatives involved in the scenario you've presented. Here's how I see it:

1. Your God does not exist.
2a. Your God exists, and is apparently self-contradictory (for example, what you described above: a "benevolent" God who takes pleasure in torturing people).
2b. Your God exists, is not self-contradictory, but has not been adequately explained by you (for example, His torment of people in Hell is actually an act of love in some way, but you have not shown how that could be) or you don't know His true nature (for example, maybe He does take pleasure in torturing people needlessly and therefore isn't loving or benevolent, even though He claims He is).

If you take a self-contradictory God as an impossibility, then you can rule out 2a. That's all the argument really says.

 

[Quiddity]

**THREAD CLOSED**

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