Atheists: A Question About Newborn Kittens.

[Secret Chief]

According to the OED definition, yes

I'm not paying a subscription for that. According to the Cambridge dictionary there is an implicit understanding that it is a human concept. It cites two examples:


"Atheism as we know it did not exist until modern times."

"He uses science to support his own brand of materialistic atheism."

atheism


Cats existed in pre modern times. So they weren't atheist back then?

 

[ChristineM]

I'm not paying a subscription for that. According to the Cambridge dictionary there is an implicit understanding that it is a human concept. It cites two examples:


"Atheism as we know it did not exist until modern times."

"He uses science to support his own brand of materialistic atheism."

atheism


Cats existed in pre modern times. So they weren't atheist back then?

Google search results for "define _____" uses the OED, no subscription required.

Are you saying the word wasn't coined until recently (18century), im pretty certain there were people who lacked belief in gods at least as far back as early modern humans and early cats

 

[Alekdar]

Not sure what you mean...post? Or do you mean thread or sub-forum?

Yeah, some cool topic around! if not, no worries, i'll keep looking!
Cheers!

 

[Secret Chief]

Google search results for "define _____" uses the OED, no subscription required.

Are you saying the word wasn't coined until recently (18century), im pretty certain there were people who lacked belief in gods at least as far back as early modern humans and early cats

Oh, It wouldn't let me past a pay wall thing.
Anyhoo, a different question:
Cats lack belief in the fairness of capitalism. Does this mean cats are therefore socialists?

 

[Secret Chief]

Yeah, some cool topic around! if not, no worries, i'll keep looking!
Cheers!

Start your own threads. Oh you have!

 

[ChristineM]

Oh, It wouldn't let me past a pay wall thing.
Anyhoo, a different question:
Cats lack belief in the fairness of capitalism. Does this mean cats are therefore socialists?

When i ask Google for a definition the definition from OED is returned top of the page,

Eg,

atheist​

/ˈeɪθɪɪst/

noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.


Any cat who wants to call this house their home better be socialist

And i lack belief in the fairness of capitalism despite running an internationally acclaimed company.

 

[Secret Chief]

a person

Exactly.

 

[Stevicus]

I'm certainly done with rocks and kittens.

What about a rockin' kitten?

 

[ChristineM]

Exactly.

Cats are persons.

 

[Secret Chief]

Cats are persons.

Right that's it, I've left the building.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Do you consider newborn kittens to be atheists?

The words atheist / theists typically applies only to humans who can actually understand what the terms mean and the (non-)beliefs represent.

But strictly speaking, yes: every entity that does not believe in gods, is atheist.

 

[Secret Chief]

The words atheist / theists typically applies only to humans who can actually understand what the terms mean and the (non-)beliefs represent.

But strictly speaking, yes: every entity that does not believe in gods, is atheist.

I think my take is that for a being to be considered atheist it can only be after said being has (or has the potential to) given consideration to the notion that god/s exist. Hence kittens, hamsters and worms are not contenders, imo. (And as for rocks, ie all matter, ie the universe, is just plain silly).

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think my take is that for a being to be considered atheist it can only be after said being has (or has the potential to) given consideration to the notion that god/s exist. Hence kittens, hamsters and worms are not contenders, imo. (And as for rocks, ie all matter, ie the universe, is just plain silly).

I don't think I agree with that.

I can imagine an isolated tribe of humans who live in harmony with nature which for some reason never developed, or came into contact with, theistic beliefs or god concepts. So if you would tell them about gods or such beliefs, they'ld have no idea what you are talking about.

I'ld call those humans atheists. Simply because they lack any beliefs to qualify as theists.

So the way I see it, atheism is a default position.

You need to actually do something, believe / make specific claims, in order to qualify as a theist.
You don't need to do anything at all to qualify as an atheist.

You are an atheist by default.
You require additional, specific beliefs / actions to qualify as a theist.


The strict definition of "atheist" is "without personal god beliefs".
So anyone without such beliefs, is an atheist by definition.

We are all "a-globdycok-ists". Eventhough nobody claims globdycoks exists or even know what they are.
We all lack believe in such anyway.
Because nobody does, we have no use for a word like "a-globdycok-ist". But that doesn't change the fact we all lack positive, affirmative beliefs in globdycoks..

 

[Secret Chief]

I don't think I agree with that.

I can imagine an isolated tribe of humans who live in harmony with nature which for some reason never developed, or came into contact with, theistic beliefs or god concepts. So if you would tell them about gods or such beliefs, they'ld have no idea what you are talking about.

I'ld call those humans atheists. Simply because they lack any beliefs to qualify as theists.

So the way I see it, atheism is a default position.

You need to actually do something, believe / make specific claims, in order to qualify as a theist.
You don't need to do anything at all to qualify as an atheist.

You are an atheist by default.
You require additional, specific beliefs / actions to qualify as a theist.


The strict definition of "atheist" is "without personal god beliefs".
So anyone without such beliefs, is an atheist by definition.

We are all "a-globdycok-ists". Eventhough nobody claims globdycoks exists or even know what they are.
We all lack believe in such anyway.
Because nobody does, we have no use for a word like "a-globdycok-ist". But that doesn't change the fact we all lack positive, affirmative beliefs in globdycoks..

Unsurprisingly I pretty much disagree with all of this, given what I have previously said. To label the tribe atheist before and/or after the "explanation" is presumptious. Their religious beliefs may not even have meaning in regard to atheism/theism. I myself do not make use of theism or god concepts but I would not call myself atheist. Funnily enough a few years ago I would have said I was an atheist. Not anymore though, partly because of reading posts by atheists on this forum. I'm not in that camp.

 

[RestlessSoul]

No, the preposterous bit was kittens and rocks (and hence the universe in effect) being atheist.

If kittens and rocks are atheists, shouldn't they be paying tax?

 

[Secret Chief]

If kittens and rocks are atheists, shouldn't they be paying tax?

My cats keep their wealth in offshore tax havens.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Unsurprisingly I pretty much disagree with all of this, given what I have previously said. To label the tribe atheist before and/or after the "explanation" is presumptious. Their religious beliefs may not even have meaning in regard to atheism/theism. I myself do not make use of theism or god concepts but I would not call myself atheist. Funnily enough a few years ago I would have said I was an atheist. Not anymore though, partly because of reading posts by atheists on this forum. I'm not in that camp.

I don't think it matters what people "identify" as.

It seems rather simple to me... The meaning of the word is clear: "without beliefs in gods".
So if you are without beliefs in gods, for whatever reason (including not even knowing about gods / god beliefs), you qualify.

 

[Secret Chief]

I don't think it matters what people "identify" as.

It seems rather simple to me... The meaning of the word is clear: "without beliefs in gods".
So if you are without beliefs in gods, for whatever reason (including not even knowing about gods / god beliefs), you qualify.

I consider myself non-theist, as do many Buddhists.

 

[RestlessSoul]

My cats keep their wealth in offshore tax havens.

Along with Harry Redknapp’s dog

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I consider myself non-theist, as do many Buddhists.

So... tom8to, tomato