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Atheists believe in miracles more than believers

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
The function of experiment is to show the experimenter a bit of reality: Reality manifests in properly designed experiment.
This is meaningless and nebulous. The function of an experiment is to gather data to test hypotheses.
The alternative is to see what we believe. We always see what we believe unless experiment directs us back to reality.
Some people see the answers they want or think or believe. I think that is the case here. You see what you want and declare it is reality.
All experiment must apply to every hypothesis.
More nebulous nonsense.
Every hypothesis can not run counter to any experiment.
And even more.
Every other species sees only what it knows so is mostly blind.
How can anyone know what any species sees? What does a worm see or even know? It has no eyes and nothing much to think with either. Yet more nebulous pondering to no useful conclusion.
We see what we believe so we see a kaleidoscope of what's real.
????? I'm not really asking. It's nebulous.
Science, to the degree it's based on experiment, allows us to see bits of reality almost directly, or more accurately, in terms of models properly constructed through experiment.
Considering that you don't employ science or experiment, what you have to say on the matter would seem irrelevant and just what you believe.
 
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Pogo

Well-Known Member
. . . a left handed monkey wrench
Which actually brought me to a scholarly publication about the big picture of installing a framastat.

Self-Adaptivity via Introspection and Monitoring of Norms and Values

"Suppose that three agents have formed a team to fulfill the duties at the framastat installation station on a widget assembly line. They first agree to adopt the values "be a team player", "work efficiently", "be independent", and "don't interfere with the activities of"

:)
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Which actually brought me to a scholarly publication about the big picture of installing a framastat.

Self-Adaptivity via Introspection and Monitoring of Norms and Values

"Suppose that three agents have formed a team to fulfill the duties at the framastat installation station on a widget assembly line. They first agree to adopt the values "be a team player", "work efficiently", "be independent", and "don't interfere with the activities of"

:)
Is that part of encabulator?
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Not sure, but I think it qualifies as an experiment to demonstrate that the little people have bigger pictures than some metaphysicists.

Just because we are studying dead bugs and cells in a vat doesn't mean we don't have a clue.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And how do you know this? NO!!! I don't want to hear about peppered moths making a sudden transformation, I was to hear about any species anywhere that made a gradual transformation due to survival of the fittest. You NOT only do NOT have evidence of such a gradual transformation but you also do NOT have evidence it was caused by survival of the fittest. You will now dodge this question entirely and NOT present any experiment or evidence to show it.
But you reject or ignore all the evidence. Your second sentence above is an example.
These threads are full of evidence. There is more and more varied evidence for natural selection than there is for the germ theory, a spherical Earth or a sun centered solar system.This is a true delusion. You maintain an unsupported belief despite mountains of contrary evidence. Practically every organism you can name is a product of natural selection.
I must hang around different people than you do because most of the scientific type people I know tend to agree with me and they arrived at their positions the same way; experiment. They have been paying attention to all the experiments going on in the last half century rather than picking and choosing what suits their beliefs. Things like chaos, plant communication, human consciousness as a function of belief, etc etc are real and subject to experimentation. Ever hear of single celled organisms that use their environment for memory, or crows that communicate? How about waggle dances that prove even insects know something about astronomy? It's believers in science who are out of step with the times.
I wonder what sort of "scientific types" these are, who don't believe in science.
Science does not choose what suits its belief. It tailors its beliefs to fit the evidence. This is the whole point of science -- don't believe what you like. Religion's done that forever, and got nowhere. Believe what you're unable to disprove.

Do you believe natural selection is not supported by experimentation?
These examples you give are evidence-based and known to science, though some of your interpretation makes no sense.
So what is your point?
Without the supernatural how can you believe in Darwin and be certain that change in species can be understood without so much as a definition for "consciousness"? Now you'll dodge this.
What's consciousness have to do with evolution? Explain, please.
You have nothing, no evidence, and no experiment. Science has been changing because actual experiment does not fit 19th century beliefs.
19th C.beliefs? You must mean religion....
For the 1000th time; NO. Science never makes any conclusions. Those positing "settled science" are lobbyists, politicians, and the faithful.
Lobbyists and politicians are not known to have much understanding or respect for science. The faithful? Who are they?
Faith is anathema to science.
There is no such thing. Science can never be right no matter how much evidence one believes he has and all theory derives from experiment and NOT evidence. No experiment supports Darwin's beliefs derived from false assumptions. He couldn't have been much more wrong but at least he had a valid excuse'; he was building on 19th century beliefs and science.
:facepalm:
Just as in my lifetime "skeptic" has come to mean "an individual who accepts what he has been told without question", science has become the world's leading religion.

Anyone who believes science is evidence based is not only doing it wrong but he doesn't even know the meaning of "metaphysics" and is more than half a century out of date with experiment and true science.
Please stop trolling. Your posts have become so bizarre they can no longer even be taken as sincere.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
It seems contradictory, but if you see it from this perspective you will understand:

A believer considers miracles to be the result of a display of knowledge and power on the part of a conscious person.
An atheist believes that things that exist came out of nothing in a miraculous way, obeying some natural laws that emerged out of nowhere, by themselves.

So who is the one who believes in miracles? ;)
Every thing "comes out" of you. It just is. You make it something.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Lots of things, no, we don't know all of them, but that has nothing to do with that they demonstrably occur and have demonstrable effects.
The we don't know everything therefore we don't know anything and so anything is possible schtick is really tiresome and juvenile.
All this about mutations...schtick and pyramids. Yup, got it. (thanks.)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If you want to say that you still have the burden of proof to show that the Bible is reliable. That it does not get history wrong (by the way, it does), that it is scientifically sound (of course it is not). If one is too literal with the Bible one ends up refuting it.
You might look at it as a test. There are tests taken of medications. Some work for the patient, some do not.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
All this about mutations...schtick and pyramids. Yup, got it. (thanks.)
No, you don't got it, the pyramid sidetrack was one of your compatriots making irelevant comments which if you actually had it, you would have recognized as such. Instead, rather than deal with the evidence and what you claim to know, you deflect and dismiss.
Your schtick is tiresome, if you actually want to discuss, we are here.
Up to you, are you honest?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Now you appear to be making excuses for your God's bad behavior. It is best not to do that, you only make him look even worse.
Please -- make your comment to those who claim evolution is true. They still can't explain it. But they try. :) Mutations, long time evolving, etc. I fully expect to see wonderful things, I have seen some wonderful things.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Please -- make your comment to those who claim evolution is true. They still can't explain it. But they try. :) Mutations, long time evolving, etc. I fully expect to see wonderful things, I have seen some wonderful things.
Right back to you don't know everything so you don't know anything and my guess is just as good.
Like I said, it is tiresome and dishonest for one who claims to "understand".
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No, you don't got it, the pyramid sidetrack was one of your compatriots making irelevant comments which if you actually had it, you would have recognized as such. Instead, rather than deal with the evidence and what you claim to know, you deflect and dismiss.
Your schtick is tiresome, if you actually want to discuss, we are here.
Up to you, are you honest?
Whatever you may say, I find many here that firmly believe in the process of evolution from beginning to the present, not really honest. They may think they're honest, but their posts reveal otherwise.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Right back to you don't know everything so you don't know anything and my guess is just as good.
Like I said, it is tiresome and dishonest for one who claims to "understand".
I obviously don't know EVERYTHING about evolution -- that is, the theory of -- but that doesn't mean I don't "understand" it. I don't have to agree with it. Scientists themselves don't "understand" everything they posit or conclude from their observations.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I obviously don't know EVERYTHING about evolution -- that is, the theory of -- but that doesn't mean I don't "understand" it. I don't have to agree with it. Scientists themselves don't "understand" everything they posit or conclude from their observations.

Knowing what every scientist understands is a handy ability. Possibly a super power.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
I obviously don't know EVERYTHING about evolution -- that is, the theory of -- but that doesn't mean I don't "understand" it. I don't have to agree with it. Scientists themselves don't "understand" everything they posit or conclude from their observations.
Well then, explain the theory and show me how it fails to explain the evidence. You are claiming to understand and that everyone else doesn't. So, maybe you should try explaining the theory to us and how it fails.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Whatever you may say, I find many here that firmly believe in the process of evolution from beginning to the present, not really honest. They may think they're honest, but their posts reveal otherwise.
Incorrect, we are more than willing to discuss the theory and evidence that we have presented numerous times, but your response of I haven't seen anything and you don't know everything is far less than honest. Motes and beams I think is the idiom for persons who claim Christianity.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
I obviously don't know EVERYTHING about evolution -- that is, the theory of -- but that doesn't mean I don't "understand" it. I don't have to agree with it. Scientists themselves don't "understand" everything they posit or conclude from their observations.
How about the classic example of the peppered moth? Can you demonstrate to us that the change in population from the pale form of the moth to the darker, melanistic form is not evolution by natural selection? Can you do it without mentioning that moths are still moths? What explains the change if it is not an evolving population being selected by changes in the environment?
 
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