Atheists have faith.

[ChristineM]

WHOA, Jesus is not a religion, he's JESUS, and he's looking for pals, here he chats to the woman at the well in John ch 4 to give her some comfort because she's had 5 husbands and a boyfriend-

Christianity is a religion based on the worship of JC.

Five husband's and a boyfriend sounds about right. Obviously the guys were not capable of keeping her happy individually

You do realise these images are not 2000 years old don't you?

 

[Dropship]

"To 'get to heaven' as you say is dependent on two things--faith in the Manifestation of God in His Day, in other words in this age in Bahá'u'lláh; and good deeds.."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer)

Ah, but to reject Jesus is not a "good deed"..

 

[ratiocinator]

Atheists have faith in the non-existence of God

This one doesn't. Which god are you talking about anyway? Theists have to have faith that most gods don't exist, as well as that their chosen version does.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Funny you should say that mate, because as a kid I overheard my dad saying to my mam about me - "He's nutty! No don't laugh, I really do mean it, he wastes all his pocket money on silly plastic model aeroplanes then hangs 'em on string from his bedroom ceiling in full view of the street, I dread to think what the neighbours are saying about him, when's he going to start saving his money instead?"
(Huh, perhaps he'd have preferred me to join the local street gang and run wild instead of sitting quietly up in my room building models)
I got my own back though, I filled his radio with sand from a builders yard down the road and rofl'd at his bewildered expression when he tried to tune in the Clay-Liston fight but all he got were electrical crackles and splutters. Hehe
Then the sand began pouring out in torrents like an Indiana Jones temple and he freaked, "I don't believe it!" he yelled, "its full of bleddy sand, how the hell did that get in there?" Needless to say, I innocently denied all knowledge of it..
He's been dead now 40 years but I wonder what he'd say if he knew I still buy models, i've currently got my eye on this one down the model shop, hmm looks good-

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You didn't progress as to putting sugar in the petrol fillers of cars did you?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Pretty sure we all live in that world. In which case we all contribute, each in our own special way, to the sum of loopiness.

But adding to it is not really that necessary - given we have enough to contend with - and such being a lot less flexible than most other set patterns that we have.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The phrase I used was unjustified belief, which is a chief definition of faith, another being justified belief, and a third being a system of religious belief such as the Baha'i faith. None of these are actions, which your definition emphasizes.

I am saying it takes actions of faith to implement a beleif.

The core fundamental actions of a Belief defines one's faith.

A beleif without actions is naught, an athiest stance without actions is naught.

The actions define a faith and if an Athiest also undertaken those actions, they to are defining a belief, even if they do not see it that way.

The difference is that the athiest is nit seeing by those actions that they are doing that.

That brings me back to the "Essence of Faith is fewness of words and abundance of deeds".

In the end I do not want to argue the point, I am just trying to explain why I see many atheists are not Godless and at the same time, see some that claim a faith given by God, are Godless, as they see actions are not part of faith.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

People will still not understand what you mean when you write faith. Christians go out of their way to distinguish between what they call faith and works. You conflate them, and put the emphasis on the works, the same behavior seen in some people with no faith, just empathy and benevolence.

Furthermore, your definition doesn't address faith in wrong ideas.

An undesirable consequence of calling faith what others would call good will or volunteerism is that you barely got to discuss whatever it is that you had in mind when you started this thread. Instead, you were contending with the confusion caused by your use of the word faith.

That is always an issue, trying to impart what thoughts inspired the OP.

I thought I was clear that I offered in the OP that it was the actions that define what is faith, the quote posted later, offers more clarity on what was and is being offered.

Also throughout the OP it has been offered that faith does have many levels and this OP is mostly about the essence of faith, what it really is to have faith and that an athiest by their actions can also define faith.

Is that explained better?

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

There's so many vague definitions of god that when I think of deities I think Zues, Athena, Jehovah, and things like that not higher power, incarnation, and personified profound version of love.

Yeah. But that does not change that almost 1 out of 5 atheists at least in the U.S actually believe in a higher power.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Looking at the last 2-3 pages of this thread, I saw multiple posters telling you the same. A definition is a group of words (definiendum) that can substitute for the word or phrase being defined (definiens). So, a definition of atheist is one with no belief in gods. I can rewrite the sentence, "I ran into someone who was an atheist" as, "I ran into somebody with no belief in gods" by simple substitution.

Let's try this.

I ran into an athiest the other day who had a fewness of words but had an abundance of deeds. The essence of faith is fewness of words and abundance of deeds, so the athiest was demonstrating the essence of faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Ah, but to reject Jesus is not a "good deed"..

Who is rejecting Jesus? Baha'is believe in Jesus and we revere Jesus.

“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth.”

The Promised Day is Come, pp. 109-110

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Ah, but to reject Jesus is not a "good deed"..

Who is rejecting Jesus? Baha'is believe in Jesus and we revere Jesus.

There is another level of thought here as well.

I see that the rejection of a Message is not in itself a great unforgivable sin, as there is always an opportunity that we can change our mind.

I see the warnings are about recognising the station of Jesus Christ and then rejecting that station in preference to one's own stance, that is making oneself equal with God and is the what I see the warnings are about.

In the Baha'i Faith that is the level of Covernant breaking. So I see that warning is for Christains that embrace Christ, but then take authority in their own interpretations.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In hindsight it may have been better to name the OP something like this;

"Atheist's can demonstrate faith".

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In hindsight it may have been better to name the OP something like this;

"Atheist's can demonstrate faith".

Regards Tony

Always good hindsight.

Regards Tony

 

[lukethethird]

Atheists have faith

Well duh, of course, just not in God.

 

[Tiberius]

I see words are often and can be redefined and in the end what is being explored is where those abundance of deeds come from, what it it that motivates us it it based in a level of faith?

Maybe faith was always supposed to be defined by deeds, but over time men have changed the meaning so it does not include deeds, I know many Christians that see it that way, so that might be the issue?

Regards Tony

Huh?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I find Jesus grasped his concept of faith by having 'confidence/trust' in what was written in the old Hebrew Scriptures.

Wow, interesting comment

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Atheists have faith

Well duh, of course, just not in God.

That has been clarified throughout the OP.

Regards Tony

 

[Tiberius]

Atheists have faith

Well duh, of course, just not in God.

I wouldn't call it RELIGIOUS faith though.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I wouldn't call it RELIGIOUS faith though.

That's debatable, but I will leave it alone.

Regards Tony

 

[Tiberius]

That's debatable, but I will leave it alone.

Regards Tony

I'm curious to know what religion you think atheists have...