Atheists: If God existed…

[ArtieE]

No, I am not an atheist, because I believe in the One True God.
There was never any need for more than one God, given God is omnipotent and omniscient.

Well, an atheist is a person who doesn't believe in the existence of gods. Plural. Neither do you. You only believe in the existence of one god. Singular. That means that you are in practice an atheist who has made one single exception from not believing in the existence of gods.

 

[ArtieE]

God communicates to humans through Messengers who establish religions, so if we have faith in the Messenger and His religion, we have faith in God. In other words, God is not going to prove that he exists in any other way than by sending Messengers. Having faith in them is having faith in God, since they are God's Representatives on earth.

Do you have faith in Krishna, one of the Messengers you speak of, when he explains how reincarnation works in great detail?

 

[night912]

Baha'u'llah wrote it.

So you're back to circular reasoning again. Because how do you know that that is the truth if you didn't know that he was a messenger or not?

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: I cannot tell you why I believe there is only One True God instead of many gods

Could you specify?

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167

The one true God implies that there are false gods. False gods do not exist, people make them up in their head.

You keep quoting the Bible and the Bible states that there are many gods... The Bible’s Many Gods | Gerald McDermott

According to my religion there is only one true God. I do not care what the Bible says. The Bible was not written by a Manifestation of God, it was written by men who wrote whatever they felt like writing. They imagined there were many gods. I do not have time to entertain such fantasies.

From your link:
"But it’s not just the Psalms. In Exodus Yahweh predicts that he will execute judgments “on all the gods of Egypt” (12:12). The author of Numbers then declares that that is indeed what happened: “Yahweh executed judgments against their gods” (33:4). There is no hint that Yahweh is the only God. Instead it is clearly implied that Egypt has her own gods, and Yahweh will defeat them."

These men in the Old Testament are writing as if they are speaking for God -- Yahweh predicts -- but they do not speak for God, only a Manifestation of God can speak for God. In my opinion, the mention of many gods in the Old Testament does not mean there are really many gods, it means that people should not worship false gods that do not exist. In my opinion, the man who wrote this article misinterpreted the Old Testament because none of those many gods ever existed in reality, they were only imagined to exist.

People are free to believe whatever they want to believe, but I consider it a fantasy to think that there is more than one God and I do not think any real scriptures ever said that. People either misinterpreted the scriptures or they were changed over time, and that is why some people believe there are many gods.

 

[ArtieE]

According to my religion there is only one true God. I do not care what the Bible says. The Bible was not written by a Manifestation of God, it was written by men who wrote whatever they felt like writing. They imagined there were many gods. I do not have time to entertain such fantasies.

So the men who wrote about Moses, Abraham and Jesus Christ in the Bible, Messengers of God according to you, just wrote whatever they felt like writing with no guidance from any gods?

 

[night912]

It is possible I am wrong but I do not believe I am wrong because it is possible that what I believe could be wrong.
Can you understand the English language?

So, after I pointed out your contradiction and you couldn't come up with a rational and honest explanation, you resorted to insults.

Straw man. I never said it is impossible that I could be wrong.

Are you sure? Unless if someone has the exact same name and avatar as you or someone used your account to reply to the post, clearly you did say that.

And obviously, I do understand the English language enough to know and understand what a straw man fallacy is. That's why I didn't use a straw man, instead all i did was showed you where you contradicted yourself.

In my mind, it is impossible that what I believe about Baha’u’llah is not true, because there is too much evidence that shows that He was who He claimed to be.

But even if (there's no "if's" because you did) I did believe it was impossible that I am wrong, that would not make me closed-minded.
That would just make me a believer who is firm in my beliefs.

I am not firmly unreceptive to new ideas or arguments just because I am firm in my beliefs.

Closed-minded
adjective. having a mind firmly unreceptive to new ideas or arguments: It's hard to argue with, much less convince, a closed-mindedperson.
Closed-minded | Definition of Closed-minded at Dictionary.com

Receptive
adjective.
1. having the quality of receiving, taking in, or admitting.
2. able or quick to receive knowledge, ideas, etc.:a receptive mind.
3. willing or inclined to receive suggestions, offers, etc., with favor:a receptive listener.

You weren't receptive to new (or old) ideas or arguments. So, yes, you are closed minded when it comes to gods and religions. Just in case you didn't know, simply being a firm believer isn't the reason why you are closed minded, people can disagree with each other and still be open. You believing that it's impossible for you to be wrong, you're unwilling to receive ideas, arguments, suggestions, questions, so willingly to criticize other beliefs but become defensive when the roles are reversed, play word games etc, are the reasons as to why you are closed minded.

And probably the top reason is your "defensive" dishonesty resulting in denial. When contradictions are pointed out, you either dismiss it, move the goal post, or desperately attempt to reword what you said resulting in more contradictions, self refutation, or not make any sense at all. And it's apparent that you do somewhat understand what circular reasoning is by you giving examples of it, and yet, when it's pointed out that your argument is circular with an explanation as to why it is, you dishonestly deny it. You instead straw man about the messenger, but in actuality, your premise and conclusion are the same, god exist.

And playing the victim and blaming others doesn't help your argument, nor does continuously post your religious scriptures.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, an atheist is a person who doesn't believe in the existence of gods. Plural. Neither do you. You only believe in the existence of one god. Singular. That means that you are in practice an atheist who has made one single exception from not believing in the existence of gods.

I am not an atheist because atheists do not believe in any Gods.

 

[night912]

The Attributes and the Will of God have nothing to do with the Essence of God so they do not represent that Essence. The Essence of God is God's intrinsic nature and nobody can ever know that, not even the Messengers of God. The Attributes of God and the Will of God are knowable, because the Messengers of God reflect the Attributes of God and they reveal the Will of God that has been communicated to them by God.

Attribute

1. to consider as a quality or characteristic of the person, thing, group, etc., indicated:He attributed intelligence to his colleagues.
noun
2. something attributed as belonging to a person, thing, group, etc.; a quality, character, characteristic, or property:Sensitivity is one of his attributes

Essence

noun
1. the basic, real, and invariable nature of a thing or its significant individual feature or features:Freedom is the very essence of our democracy.

Playing words games won't help you.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you have faith in Krishna, one of the Messengers you speak of, when he explains how reincarnation works in great detail?

I believe that Krishna was a Manifestation of God but I do not believe what was written by other people about what He said many years later. Krishna did not write anything Himself so He could not have explained anything.

Reincarnation is a false belief according to my religion.
81: REINCARNATION

After we die, we go to the spiritual world and continue to progress in the spiritual world. We never come back to earth.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156

 

[ArtieE]

According to my religion there is only one true God. I do not care what the Bible says. The Bible was not written by a Manifestation of God, it was written by men who wrote whatever they felt like writing.

"The evidence for Baha’u’llah being a Manifestation of God is as follows:" "The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming". Bible prophecies written by men who wrote whatever they felt like writing?

 

[Trailblazer]

So you're back to circular reasoning again. Because how do you know that that is the truth if you didn't know that he was a messenger or not?

I did know He was a Messenger of God.
I knew because of the evidence that indicates that.

 

[Trailblazer]

So the men who wrote about Moses, Abraham and Jesus Christ in the Bible, Messengers of God according to you, just wrote whatever they felt like writing with no guidance from any gods?

If they got guidance it was from the Holy Spirit which comes from the one true God, but guidance if no guarantee of accuracy.

 

[ArtieE]

I believe that Krishna was a Manifestation of God but I do not believe what was written by other people about what He said many years later. Krishna did not write anything Himself so He could not have explained anything.

So you have a prophet, a Manifestation of God, a Messenger of God with no message because he didn't write anything himself and you don't believe what others wrote down about what he said? Pretty worthless messenger... are there any of your prophets or messengers or Manifestations of God who actually did leave a message?

 

[ArtieE]

If they got guidance it was from the Holy Spirit which comes from the one true God, but guidance if no guarantee of accuracy.

So was your Bahá'u'lláh just guided and could be inaccurate, or was every word dictated straight from God?

 

[Trailblazer]

So, after I pointed out your contradiction and you couldn't come up with a rational and honest explanation, you resorted to insults.

That was not an insult, you just took it that way.

All you do is "point out" things about me, as if you know me better than I know myself.
Why do you think you have a need to do that?
Why not just talk about the subject matter at hand like other people do?

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.”
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

 

[Trailblazer]

Attribute

1. to consider as a quality or characteristic of the person, thing, group, etc., indicated:He attributed intelligence to his colleagues.
noun
2. something attributed as belonging to a person, thing, group, etc.; a quality, character, characteristic, or property:Sensitivity is one of his attributes

Essence

noun
1. the basic, real, and invariable nature of a thing or its significant individual feature or features:Freedom is the very essence of our democracy.

Playing words games won't help you.

I do not need any help, except from God.
I don't argue with people on forums anymore.
I am finished talking to you.

 

[Trailblazer]

"The evidence for Baha’u’llah being a Manifestation of God is as follows:" "The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming". Bible prophecies written by men who wrote whatever they felt like writing?

Yes.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you have a prophet, a Manifestation of God, a Messenger of God with no message because he didn't write anything himself and you don't believe what others wrote down about what he said? Pretty worthless messenger... are there any of your prophets or messengers or Manifestations of God who actually did leave a message?

The Messenger is not worthless, but what other people wrote in His name is not useful and it is not needed in this new age because it is outdated.

The Bab and Baha'u'llah are the only Manifestations of God who wrote their own scriptures and we have the original manuscripts which have been authenticated.

 

[ArtieE]

Yes.

I don't follow... You said: "The Bible was not written by a Manifestation of God, it was written by men who wrote whatever they felt like writing. They imagined there were many gods. I do not have time to entertain such fantasies." So the prophecies in the Bible, allegedly fulfilled by Bahá'u'lláh, were just written by people with a healthy imagination with no divine guidance?

 

[Trailblazer]

So was your Bahá'u'lláh just guided and could be inaccurate, or was every word dictated straight from God?

All I know is what I can read.
I believe that Baha'u'llah received a Revelation from God through the Holy Spirit. He explained how that transpired, but I am not a Manifestation of God so I could never understand how they receive their revelations from God. Here are some passages where He explained what transpired when He received His revelations from God.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

“God is My witness, O people! I was asleep on My couch, when lo, the Breeze of God wafting over Me roused Me from My slumber. His quickening Spirit revived Me, and My tongue was unloosed to voice His Call. Accuse Me not of having transgressed against God. Behold Me, not with your eyes but with Mine. Thus admonisheth you He Who is the Gracious, the All-Knowing. Think ye, O people, that I hold within My grasp the control of God’s ultimate Will and Purpose? Far be it from Me to advance such claim. To this I testify before God, the Almighty, the Exalted, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Had the ultimate destiny of God’s Faith been in Mine hands, I would have never consented, even though for one moment, to manifest Myself unto you, nor would I have allowed one word to fall from My lips. Of this God Himself is, verily, a witness.” Gleanings, pp. 90-91