Atheists: If God existed would God……

[Altfish]

Nobody can "manage on their own".
It is an illusion. We need others.
..particularly when we become old and decrepit.

I notice you selectively quoted my post.

 

[ppp]

Yep

Nope.

You deny the sun and rain dosent exist?

The sun and the moon exists. Their mere existence is not evidence for any god claim.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We need others. ..particularly when we become old and decrepit.

Yeah, we need others, but not phantoms.

.. that are just part and parcel of life on earth.

Who created life?

That is the explanation.

Blame the one who started it, without any reason.
God is the culprit.

 

[Polymath257]

Wrong. Most people do believe in those communicators, as I pointed on on my previous post.

84 percent of the world population has a faith.

Because most faiths have a religious Founder or what I call a Messenger that means most people believe in God because of a Messenger. We know that Christians and Muslims believe in a Messenger and they comprise 55% of the world population. It does not matter if you call them a Messenger; they are holy men who founded the religions, so they are intermediaries between God and man. Sure, there are a few believers who believe in God but not a Messenger but that is not the norm. The point is that with no Messengers or holy men very few people would believe in God.

Except that these relgiious people can't agree on the specific religion. You are conflating very different viewpoints.

For example, Jesus might be a Messenger for the Christians, but they don't agree that Mohammed is a Messenger at all. And the answers given by the followers of those two are different in many ways. The same can be said for those who listened to Mohammed and those who listened to Bab.

So I could equally well say that the vast majority of people on Earth disagree with any particular religion you care to mention. Simply 'believing in God' is not enough if the specific beliefs are contradictory.

Once again, it is clear, even under the assumption that there is a God, that the Messengers have given confusing and contradictory messages. Which means that 'God' hasn't figured out how to actually communicate with humans.

 

[Polymath257]

According to my beliefs God cannot do anything in human terms because God is not a human.
God cannot be socially interactive because social interaction is a human behavior.
That means that the way God shows love to humans has to be different than the way humans show love to each other.

According to my beliefs God is without peer or equal and does not associate with His Creation.
God is and has from everlasting been, one and alone, self-subsisting, occupying the Seat of transcendent majesty, of supreme and inaccessible glory.

OK, so you allow that God is not all powerful? An inability to do things on human terms is a very definitive lack of power in one way, right?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I do have evidence but you have none.

I see a God based upon what was revealed in the Baha'i scriptures.

If your "evidence" is Baha'i scriptures, then you don't have evidence, you have hear-say.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

God cannot be demonstrated but that does not prove that God is nonexistent.

I never claimed that my believing something makes it reality.
The same applies to you.

Okay, then, outside of God, what else that "cannot be demonstrated" do you believe exists? List doesn't need to be alphabetical.

 

[Neuropteron]

I am asking what God would do if God existed.
I am asking if God would God communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone IF GOD EXISTED.

I am not asking if God could communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.

I am not asking if God should communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.

God could do anything He wanted to do, but just because God could do certain things that does not mean that God would or should do certain things.

Who is to say what God should do, besides God?

Hi,
That's clear now, thanks.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

..but G-d doesn't need a mobile phone to communicate.
He is aware of each and every thought we have. He knows each and every one of us better than we know ourselves.

He is able to guide us, or He is able to leave us in darkness due to our own failures to want to listen to truth.

Oh, the games that people play.

Is God aware of the murderous thoughts of a serial killer?

Is God able to guide the serial killer away from murder?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Atheists: If God existed would God do #1 or #2, as noted below?

These are two separate questions.

1. If God existed would God communicate directly to everyone?
2. If God existed would God prove that He exists to everyone?

I am not asking if God could communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.
I am not asking if God should communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.

I am asking if God would God communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone IF GOD EXISTED.

If you answer yes, please explain why you answered yes.
If you answer no, please explain why you answered no.

Thanks, Trailblazer

The answer is the same for gods as any for other sentient agent that has a message that it wants heard and has the means to get its message out there - yes, it would get it's message to as many people as it cared to reach in the clearest and most direct way possible.

Isn't that what you and I are doing now? We each have a message to share with as many RF readers as are interested. How did we do that? By posting on the world wide web, not by finding a lone messenger to walk the streets with our posts telling whomever would listen what we wanted to share with others.

So, yes, a tri-omni deity that has a message for mankind and could deliver it directly to every human being, should do so, and would do so like any other rational, sentient mind that also had the ability to do so.

 

[epronovost]

I am sorry I confused you but you won't be the first atheist who I confused. I cannot always know how I come across and I don't know what other people are thinking. To be clear, I do not have my own deity, the deity I believe in is the one revealed in Baha'i scriptures and it was also revealed in other scriptures. The only characteristics and traits I know about are the ones revealed in scriptures. The only way I can ever know what that deity did, does or might do in the future is by reading the scriptures.

That makes it your deity. A deity is a being that is worshiped. If you worship it, it's your deity as opposed to those other deities that are worshiped by other people and that you don't. Since information n your deity's characteristics are sparse and that you accept only answers that finds some support in scriptures, why would you ask atheists this question? Wouldn't it have been smarter to simply ask your peers? Why ask me to "assume that your god exist" and then try to answer speculatively how it should behave? I don't think your deity exists. I think you are worshipping the banal day dreaming of a 19th century eccentric Persian mystic and his squabbling extended family.

 

[F1fan]

And how many of those "God" believers believe the same things? And how many of them believe that Baha'u'llah is a true messenger from God? And how many messages from God do Baha'is believe are accurate? Yet that is all people had to go by to know about God until Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah? And how many, other than Muslims and a few Baha'is read the Quran? How many of any religion, other than a few Baha'is, read the writings of the Bab? And who other than Baha'i read the writings of Baha'u'llah. And out of those, how many have read all of the writings of Baha'u'llah?

Lots of good questions, and I'm sure most would confound any Baha'i believer. For them claiming they have messengers there are a lot of questions that are not answered.

Yet that is supposedly the most important communications we have. They are supposedly from the one and only God. And, the other problem, is these messengers are always controversial, so they get rejected by most people.

Even if a God only communicated with a few people, just a few over the many millennia is a very bad approach given how flawed human development has been. If anyone needed interventions by a loving God it has been humans. It's like a football coach showing up once a season for a few minutes and telling the team "Get your **** together and win." It's not enough.

 

[F1fan]

Diseases are just part of living in the physical world. Nobody created them. If certain conditions were present in the body that allowed them to develop then they developed. A person might have a genetic predisposition or they might have bad living habits that lead to diseases.

So you don't accept the Abrahamic creation God. So there was no creator? And note many diseases evolved, so you have to believe that God didn't guide evolution either.

 

[Kooky]

I am sorry I confused you but you won't be the first atheist who I confused. I cannot always know how I come across and I don't know what other people are thinking. To be clear, I do not have my own deity, the deity I believe in is the one revealed in Baha'i scriptures and it was also revealed in other scriptures. The only characteristics and traits I know about are the ones revealed in scriptures. The only way I can ever know what that deity did, does or might do in the future is by reading the scriptures.

That's absolutely correct. Nobody can know what God is like or what God would do just by knowing that God is all-powerful. That is not enough to make any speculation.

If nobody can know what God is like, then that renders any such truth claims made by supposed follower of this supposed God suspect or even absurd.

And there is nothing intrinsic to the concept of a remote creator that even suggests such a being ought to be worshipped, or even desires to be worshipped to begin with, let alone in the specific manner prescriped by the followers of the many Abrahamic monotheisms.

Even the idea that such a being had a message for humanity, let alone cared for them to hear it, is already an enormous, unproven assumption on your part that you cannot support with either evidence or coherent argumentation.

 

[F1fan]

I never claimed that God guides everyone. God only guides whomsoever He chooses to guide and withholds guidance from others.

Or maybe not, since this is only your belief and you have no knowledge.

Rather, why do you believe this is true, because of the txt you quoted? Who says that is true?

Obviously there are many people who need to be guided that never hear from a God. It must be god's fault since it is powerful enough to make itself heard, yes? You offer no quote to explain who God "bestows his gifts" or doesn't. Obviously there are many humans not getting any gift, and the result is a lot of carnage.

You are preaching to the choir.

I believe in God but I never said I believe in an all-loving God who cares if we suffer or not. In fact I have said the exact opposite.

Then why bother believing in a God, or worshipping, or being religious? You keep adjusting your God to fit the arguments and questions. As you admit, you are not operating with a knowledge of God, so why act as if you are?

It is obvious that God does not really care how much humans suffer since He created a world that is a storehouse of suffering.

Now you're saying God DID create the world and nature. Make up your mind.

No, it is not ignorance that binds man to this world, it is God who binds man to it by creating it and expecting us to live in it.

Well since your version of God doesn't care, then it doesn't care what happens to us. Maybe the messengers are just God messing with us, since God doesn't care about us.

Either you're confused, or your god is confused and you have excellent clarity about how confused God is.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nope.

The sun and the moon exists. Their mere existence is not evidence for any god claim.

Well, I'd say they can live in a fantasy world then.

An alleged god can't even match those simple straightforward truths and your right, god didn't have anything to do with the sun and moon because no god made them.

 

[HonestJoe]

But after you bought the car we would know if it was red or blue.

Yes, but this is about hypothetical questions. We're being asked to imagine characteristics in the event of something happening or being true.

So, if God exists we can know certain things about how God operates, or should I say how God does not operate.

You need to be careful with the wording here. "If God exists" is a statement about what actually is. "If God existed" is a hypothetical question about what could have been.

Either way, if you are proposing a God that does exist or asking about a hypothetical God that could exist, you are defining the God in question. You could define a type of god which leads to either answer to your questions or you could define a type of god which leaves the possibility open.

If people say that God has not communicated to them then we can logically deduce that if God exists God would not communicate directly to everyone...

That logic is wrong. You are assuming that if God did exist, the world wouldn't be any different to how is actually is.

It is possible to conceive of a god which would communicate it's existence to everyone in the world. That would be a very different world to the one we know, which is how we know that type of god doesn't exist, but it could have existed.

 

[Trailblazer]

..but G-d doesn't need a mobile phone to communicate.

nor does He own one.

 

[Trailblazer]

I said that, I don't believe in god because he won't reveal himself through modern medium of communication. By implication that means I think he should.

What would it look like if God revealed Himself that way and how would we know it was God?
How do you know that God can reveal himself through modern medium of communication?
Do you think that God is just stubbornly refusing to do what He could do?

 

[Trailblazer]

]If diseases, germs, worms, viruses can exist without anyone creating them, then humans too can exist without anyone creating them.

That's right, and humans were not created, they evolved.