Atheists: If God existed would God……

[F1fan]

No, that is not what it means to be good, that is what it means TO YOU to be good. You just cannot see beyond your own ego.

Yet you declare God as good, and do so based on what? By what YOU think is authoritative in the texts YOU decide are true.

It would not be good at all because NOBODY could ever understand God communicating to them directly.
That is my belief based upon scripture, not upon my ego.

Yet the scripture isn't fact based. It is accepted on faith, and faith is a personal, non-rational judgment. How does that not suggest ego?

 

[Polymath257]

God does not take actions or have behaviors because God is not a human being. Only humans take actions.
God wills things to happen and they happen according to His will.

You are anthropomorphizing God, making God into a human being, but I really cannot blame you if you are going off the Bible. I consider the OT a travesty for all the harm it has done to people, especially atheists. The Baha'i Writings cleared all this up so now we can know what God really is and what God is responsible for.

God does not condone genocide and He never did.
So God should 'do something' about childhood cancer and leave everyone else to suffer?
That is neither logical nor just.

Oh, it is simply that children are more innocent and thereby don't deserve suffering as much as many adults.

 

[F1fan]

We do know if we read the Writings of Baha'u'llah....

No, you accept what you think the texts say. That is accepted on faith and is not factual. there is no knowledge involved.

God already did His due diligence whe He sent Messengers..

According to the texts which are not factual.

God does not 'show up' because God is not a human being.

Which is a guess, not factual.

God does not 'stand by' because God is not a human being.

Yet you and other theists constantly refer to God in human or animal terns, like calling it a "he", and but now you want to pull back on these descriptions that appear to be very human-like. This is typical of theists traditionally. You and your religion likely just copied this pattern of thinking and belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

Irony, as you refer to God as a "he". That is anthropomorphism.

I say He out of respect because otherwise I'd have to refer to God as "it."

Odd that God created a world where genocide is pretty common, and then does nothing to stop it.

Odd that humans commit genocide and all some people can think to do about it is sit around blaming God.

Only if you admit your idea of God is absurd. But if a God does exist you might be correct that it is amoral, but wrong in asserting it is good by your human standards.

Only if you admit your idea of a God that would act like Superman is absurd.
But if a God does exist I might be correct that it is good, and you might be wrong in asserting it is immoral by your human standards.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yet you declare God as good, and do so based on what? By what YOU think is authoritative in the texts YOU decide are true.

No, that won't work. We do not decide it is true, we believe it is true.... It is not about US, it is about the Messenger we believe in.

Yet the scripture isn't fact based. It is accepted on faith, and faith is a personal, non-rational judgment. How does that not suggest ego?

What suggests ego is what you just said, that faith is a personal, non-rational judgment.
Who are YOU to say what is non-rational? All you can say is what YOU think is non-rational.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, it is simply that children are more innocent and thereby don't deserve suffering as much as many adults.

Not all adults deserve suffering and not all children are innocent. Do you ever watch any true crime dramas?

 

[Trailblazer]

No, you accept what you think the texts say. That is accepted on faith and is not factual. there is no knowledge involved.

According to the texts which are not factual.

Which is a guess, not factual.

It is a belief, not a guess.

Knowledge of God is not factual. It only comes through revelations of Messengers.

Knowledge can be a veil preventing recognition of Baha’u’llah because people who think they know everything are often haughty and vainglorious. That does not mean education is not highly commendable but it is not necessary to recognize Baha’u’llah, and some of the purest souls were uneducated.

“Know verily that Knowledge is of two kinds: Divine and Satanic. The one welleth out from the fountain of divine inspiration; the other is but a reflection of vain and obscure thoughts. The source of the former is God Himself; the motive-force of the latter the whisperings of selfish desire. The one is guided by the principle: “Fear ye God; God will teach you;” 29 the other is but a confirmation of the truth: “Knowledge is the most grievous veil between man and his Creator.” The former bringeth forth the fruit of patience, of longing desire, of true understanding, and love; whilst the latter can yield naught but arrogance, vainglory and conceit.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 69

 

[F1fan]

It is a belief, not a guess.

Guesses are often beliefs.

Knowledge of God is not factual. It only comes through revelations of Messengers.

Great, and we shouldn't just take the word of these messengers. There are no facts to warrant judgment these people are credible.

Knowledge can be a veil preventing recognition of Baha’u’llah because people who think they know everything are often haughty and vainglorious. That does not mean education is not highly commendable but it is not necessary to recognize Baha’u’llah, and some of the purest souls were uneducated.

There is no fact or rational process that allows an objective mind to judge Baha’u’llah is genuine. Thus far only faithful minds are accepting what this guy says at face value, and use no tools of judgment to think beyond this devotion.

 

[F1fan]

Not all adults deserve suffering and not all children are innocent.

Do you think there are children so naughty that they deserve cancer and an early death?

What you seem to be saying is the world was set up as if no God exists. And it isn't odd that God doesn't interact with humans, so it's easy to conclude Gods don't exist the way many believe.

 

[F1fan]

Oh, it is simply that children are more innocent and thereby don't deserve suffering as much as many adults.

Agreed. Over the years of debating theists and the morality of God, and them asking me what would convince me their God exists, I've said that I would be impressed if children never got very sick until they hit, say, 16, the age of consent. If children were able to enjoy a childhood without the lottery of life that hits most adults with fatal diseases, i would think the universe is looking out for these innocent lives. I know some kids can be brats, but are they so bad that they get cancer? And it's not as if the bratty ones are getting cancer. A client of mine had to cope with their 3 year old daughter getting Leukemia, and then die after 2 years of painful treatment. She was a good kid. That really shook me up because I never knew kids could get cancer like that.

I'm sorry, but the excuse that nature functions independently of God is nonsense when that same God created the universe. The God created cancers as part of what it designed. If they want to concede their God is incompetent or a sadist, then OK. It would fit our observations as we compare their claims to it. Theists want to have the cake and eat it too. It just doesn't work as a literal being. At best I think God and most other religious concepts are metaphors, much the way most Eastern Gods are representative of one thing or another. Western religion got into a bad habit of accepting their beliefs literally, as hard concepts. It just doesn't work in the age of reason.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

You are catching on... I sure wish others here would catch on.

It's not just a matter of "catching on" as it is an attack on ones sensibilities just to ACCEPT such a thing...and then expect people to worship it.

The Bible is chocked full of anthropomorphism. They are stories about what God allegedly did..

Well of COURSE it is chocked full of anthropomorphism......look at who WROTE it....a bunch of indigent, uneducated Goat-Ropers. It's all about how THEY perceived the entity they called "God". That, plus it being not much more than a running DIARY of the exploits and adventures of the Hebrew/Jewish peoples.

God does not make decisions because God already knows everything that has happened or will ever happen.
God is not a human being who makes decisions. God wills things and they happen. There is no reason to believe that God willed the things that are attributed to Him in the OT.

ASSUMING it is true about God being omniscient....that has got to be one of the best responses I have ever gotten from you.
It's just too bad that the majority of bible-believers can't seem to come to the same or at least similar conclusion.

 

[Trailblazer]

Great, and we shouldn't just take the word of these messengers.

I never suggested that you should.

There is no fact or rational process that allows an objective mind to judge Baha’u’llah is genuine. Thus far only faithful minds are accepting what this guy says at face value, and use no tools of judgment to think beyond this devotion.

That is not true. There are facts about Baha'u'llah and we can use a rational process that allows us to judge whether or not Baha’u’llah is genuine. Baha'is do not accept what He said at face value.

 

[osgart]

I never suggested that you should.

That is not true. There are facts about Baha'u'llah and we can use a rational process that allows us to judge whether or not Baha’u’llah is genuine. Baha'is do not accept what He said at face value.

Baha'u'llah might be very genuine indeed, but how do you verify if he is correct and inerrant?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you think there are children so naughty that they deserve cancer and an early death?

No, I do not think that anyone deserves to get cancer and die.

What you seem to be saying is the world was set up as if no God exists.

No, I am saying that there is no reason to think that God would end suffering if God existed, just because some people don't like suffering.

And it isn't odd that God doesn't interact with humans, so it's easy to conclude Gods don't exist the way many believe.

What would be odd is if God interacted with humans given the nature of God.

 

[lukethethird]

No, I do not think that anyone deserves to get cancer and die.

No, I am saying that there is no reason to think that God would end suffering if God existed, just because some people don't like suffering.

What would be odd is if God interacted with humans given the nature of God.

God is without nature, it is a faith belief.

 

[lukethethird]

I never suggested that you should.

That is not true. There are facts about Baha'u'llah and we can use a rational process that allows us to judge whether or not Baha’u’llah is genuine. Baha'is do not accept what He said at face value.

All you do is make claims.

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha'u'llah might be very genuine indeed, but how do you verify if he is correct and inerrant?

All we can do is research. We read about His Life, we read about His character, we read about what He did on His mission, and we read about His primary message and teachings that are in His Writings.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's not just a matter of "catching on" as it is an attack on ones sensibilities just to ACCEPT such a thing...and then expect people to worship it.

Depending upon how they think of God that would be true or not.
From my perspective, atheists are clueless about God because they have no way to know anything about God so they create an imaginary god in their head, a bad god, so of of course they would not want to worship God.

 

[ppp]

That sounds like an assertion. Prove it.

Prove what, exactly? That you didn't demonstrate your assertion? You posted no text that demonstrated your assertion. There.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Depending upon how they think of God that would be true or not.
From my perspective, atheists are clueless about God because they have no way to know anything about God so they create an imaginary god in their head, a bad god, so of of course they would not want to worship God.

Sorry, but I do not see where that sort of reasoning even applies here. It's not that atheist are necessarily "clueless about God", as much as THEY are being HONEST in NOT declaring things about God that the have no way of knowing, unlike many "believers" who themselves don't really KNOW anything about God, but they like to TALK like they do.