Atheists: If God existed would God……

[ppp]

I know. I know.

 

[Truthseeker]

Wasn't MrB human?

Wasn't Christ a human and also divine?

 

[John53]

Wasn't Christ a human and also divine?

Depends which faction you ask. He can be whatever suits your current needs.

 

[Trailblazer]

This a fact you can show evidence to support?

The existence of God is not a fact. Facts can be proven. The existence of God can never be proven as a fact. We can only prove to ourselves that God exists.

Evidence is not the same as proof. There is evidence that God exists but there is no proof.

Evidence is information that indicates that something is true and causes you to believe it is true.

Evidence helps to establish if something is the truth but it does not establish it as a fact.

Proof is what establishes evidence as a fact.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wasn't MrB human?

Baha'u'llah (not MrB) was both human and divine, since He had a twofold nature.

God has conferred upon the Messengers of God a spiritual nature that other humans do not possess:

As a Messenger of God, Baha'u'llah had a twofold nature, one nature human, the other nature spiritual (divine). Because of His divine nature, Baha'u'llah could understand God, and because of His human nature Baha'u'llah could understand humans; so with an understanding of both God and humans, Baha'u'llah was able to bridge the gap between God and humans and act as a Mediator between God and man..

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67

 

[Trailblazer]

I see no evidence of any story told by anything non-human

I never claimed there are any stories told by non-humans. All stories are told by humans.
However, scriptures were written by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

Cancer is bad but God did not create cancer.
Ask any scientist who researches cancer what causes cancer.....
If you tell a scientist that God created cancer he will laugh in your face.

 

[John53]

The existence of God is not a fact. Facts can be proven. The existence of God can never be proven as a fact. We can only prove to ourselves that God exists.

Evidence is not the same as proof. There is evidence that God exists but there is no proof.

Evidence is information that indicates that something is true and causes you to believe it is true.

Evidence helps to establish if something is the truth but it does not establish it as a fact.

Proof is what establishes evidence as a fact.

So you were proselytising, got it.

 

[John53]

Baha'u'llah (not MrB) was both human and divine, since He had a twofold nature.

God has conferred upon the Messengers of God a spiritual nature that other humans do not possess:

As a Messenger of God, Baha'u'llah had a twofold nature, one nature human, the other nature spiritual (divine). Because of His divine nature, Baha'u'llah could understand God, and because of His human nature Baha'u'llah could understand humans; so with an understanding of both God and humans, Baha'u'llah was able to bridge the gap between God and humans and act as a Mediator between God and man..

Fact for which you can provide evidence or more proselytising?

 

[CG Didymus]

I see no evidence of any story told by anything non-human

There are so many fictional/mythical stories from so many different cultures that tell of a creator god. All written by humans. Even from some of the religions Baha'is believe are true. But even those creation stories contradict each other. Why not support the one from Hinduism rather than the one from Judaism? It's probably only because with the story in the Bible, there is only one God. Yet, they believe the story is fictional. But, naturally, the one God talked about in that fictional story is real.

 

[CG Didymus]

Wasn't Christ a human and also divine?

Was Abraham and Moses human and divine? Was Muhammad? And, if Baha'is include Adam and Noah as manifestations, were they also human and divine? These are just Baha'i beliefs. Lots of religions have their "God/men". And lots of religions claim some of their prophets to be Gods or incarnations of Gods. But are they? When it comes to incarnations, Baha'is say "no". And how do you know that? It all comes down to your beliefs based on your religion.

 

[ppp]

I never claimed there are any stories told by non-humans. All stories are told by humans.
However, scriptures were written by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Those are still stories.

 

[ppp]

There are so many fictional/mythical stories from so many different cultures that tell of a creator god. All written by humans. Even from some of the religions Baha'is believe are true. But even those creation stories contradict each other. Why not support the one from Hinduism rather than the one from Judaism? It's probably only because with the story in the Bible, there is only one God. Yet, they believe the story is fictional. But, naturally, the one God talked about in that fictional story is real.

Yep. It's completely arbitrary.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yep. It's completely arbitrary.

And the Baha'is don't believe any of them, including the Bible version. They believe God used evolution. So, if we're going to look at the Bible creation story as fictional and symbolic, then we can do that with any of them. My complaint to the Baha'is is that religions push these stories off as fact, not as being symbolic.

 

[Trailblazer]

Those are still stories.

No, the Bab and Baha'u'llah did not write stories.

story

1. a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.

2. a fictitious tale, shorter and less elaborate than a novel.

3. such narratives or tales as a branch of literature: song and story.

4. the plot or succession of incidents of a novel, poem, drama, etc.: The characterizations were good, but the story was weak.
Definition of story | Dictionary.com

 

[John53]

No, the Bab and Baha'u'llah did not write stories.

story

1. a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.

2. a fictitious tale, shorter and less elaborate than a novel.

3. such narratives or tales as a branch of literature: song and story.

4. the plot or succession of incidents of a novel, poem, drama, etc.: The characterizations were good, but the story was weak.
Definition of story | Dictionary.com

Clearly fits into definition 1 no matter which way you look at it.

 

[ppp]

1. a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.

THE essence of these words is this: they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly—their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth. They should put their trust in God, and, holding fast unto Him, follow in His way. Then will they be made worthy of the effulgent glories of the sun of divine knowledge and understanding, and become the recipients of a grace that is infinite and unseen, inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favor, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets.
Consider the past. How many, both high and low, have, at all times, yearningly awaited the advent of the Manifestations of God in the sanctified persons of His chosen Ones. How often have they expected His coming, how frequently have they prayed that the breeze of divine mercy might blow, and the promised Beauty step forth from behind the veil of concealment, and be made manifest to all the world. And whensoever the portals of grace did open, and the clouds of divine bounty did rain upon mankind, and the light of the Unseen did shine above the horizon of celestial might, they all denied Him, and turned away from His face—the face of God Himself. Refer ye, to verify this truth, to that which hath been recorded in every sacred Book.

1 Again He saith: “Each nation hath plotted darkly against their Messenger to lay violent hold on Him, and disputed with vain words to invalidate the truth.”2

In like manner, those words that have streame

Narrative. Prose/ Designed to Instruct. True or fictitious.
Story.

 

[John53]

Narrative. Prose/ Designed to Instruct. True or fictitious.
Story.

Seems obvious.

 

[Truthseeker]

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67

Also in the Kitab-i-Iqan.

 

[Trailblazer]

Narrative. Prose/ Designed to Instruct. True or fictitious.
Story.

So what if one passage fits the definition of a story?

If you look at one quote and draw conclusions as if one quote represents the Baha'i Writings, that is called the fallacy of hasty generalization and the fallacy of jumping to conclusions.

The Baha'i Writings are expansive, more expansive than the silly Bible.