Atheists only - Any use in prayer?

[Atreyu]

I do not have any use for prayer as I beleive their is nothing out there listening, However the power of the mind is of great usefulness if you believe that something will be given to you by the power of prayer it may just happen because you thought hard enough, wanted it enough, and believed enough that your mind made it so, this would not work for me because of my disbelief in a God. I use rituals, greater and lesser magic and the power of my mind is put into use as wishes granted or desires fulfilled.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

I do not have any use for prayer as I beleive their is nothing out there listening, However the power of the mind is of great usefulness if you believe that something will be given to you by the power of prayer it may just happen because you thought hard enough, wanted it enough, and believed enough that your mind made it so, this would not work for me because of my disbelief in a God. I use rituals, greater and lesser magic and the power of my mind is put into use as wishes granted or desires fulfilled.

Yeh! Part of what you said here has become a cornerstone for my entire personal system of Magick.

The imagination is very powerful. Channeled through belief it can toss your identity around like a paper kite. So much of what we believe and imagine about ourselves is self-limiting habit. When we step outside that its remarkable how free we are to do and become something else. Its amazing! :rainbow1:

Here, I'll copy and paste from a couple of emails I sent to a friend some time prior before starting this topic that reveals how I got onto this track:-

"Within certain fuzzy limits simply believing in something can itself create real effects, much like a placebo can heal or invoking a spirit can instill an altered state of identity. That capacity resides with the mind, therefore, strongly believing in the capacity of the mind can potentially do the same job as believing a pill will work or believing in spirits. However, its not tied down to a particular effect, being far more adaptive & malleable.

I've discovered that by itself believing in the capacity of the mind then using that to try to bring about change in oneself boils down to something akin to autogenic training. That's ok, but its not really all that interesting or effective. What I needed was a dynamic element perceived as being independent of the conscious mind. If that's present the effect becomes far more pronounced. I realised this by noticing that a placebo is externally created & introduced to a patient, a spirit being invoked is deemed to have a personality & agency external to the invoker. Generally speaking the imagination is always the underlying medium there. It is what gives the external object its magical life & power. Well, its possible to go directly to the imagination itself, making the dynamic element very dynamic indeed. How I do it is by starting with an intention of some kind and letting the imagination do the rest.

The technique really is that simple. Its simple but very wily."

"My new game of letting my imagination create spontaneous personalities (with the potential for many different types of "things" that I will only discover through exploration) has stunned me. I feel like I've opened a door to a world where I don't know what I'm looking at because its so protean. So many ideas I've formed over the years are quickly becoming obsolete. I'm going to have to take it slow. Using the technique is somewhat corrosive to my identity & worldview. Its the shock of realising how those things are mutable, merely habit much of the time, and that my imagination can create the experience of inhabiting a different personal space.

There are limits. For instance, despite what I said above I will always come back to my habitual personality after a while and I can't conjure up capabilities I simply don't have or my imagination may make me think I can do things that don't actually work. However, if its in the realm of capability then my imagination will more often than not score a direct hit.

So here is a mistake: I often try to do something unusual by doing just that - trying. The problem is that its my ego trying and my ego may not be equipped for what it is I'm trying to do or even resist it strongly. Also, if I am successful for a while I might get disappointed and give up when I find I've failed to integrate the something unusual into my ego as a habitual feature. Well, I don't have to integrate something unusual by trying! I can let my imagination do the something unusual when I need it. I can bypass my 'self'."

 

[Diederick]

Praying is a placebo, so it has some effect. But certainly there is nothing to answer them.

People do it to pretend they are not in control of their own lives and their surroundings, and thereby not be responsible for it.

 

[MSizer]

I think UV and CircleOne pray to themselves. 8^) (but they can get away with it somehow. Chix don't have it easy, but doods will excuse anything for nice looking girls. If I said I prayed to myself, you'd all think I'm dumb, and you'd be right.)

 

[Humanistheart]

For atheists only or those who are just wearing their atheist hat today:-

Could you see any use in prayer feeling that no god is there to listen?

To open the question further, if there are no supernatural causes, what traditional religious practices would still serve a useful purpose?

For me prayer is a plecebo effect. People like to think there's someone out there looking out for them. But if the being they're praying to existed and cared about you I daubt you'd be in a position to need prayer in the fist place.

The sence of community and fellowship many thiestic religions inspire is nice though. I'm still waiting for an athiest organization to develope something like this. If there is one already, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

 

[strange_lupe]

I make do just fine with plenty of inner dialog and regular meditation. some of the guidelines christians use for prayer are pretty helpful. for example:

-be thankful for what you have
-focus on ways that your life could be improved
-consider the needs of your loved ones
-and spend some time just listening to God (meditating)

 

[Necessary_Control]

Though I can understand the points others made, I cannot see any benifit coming from praying to a God that you believe does not exist. Though it does serve as a sort of stress-reliever, I believe that that is as far as it can take you. If one is asking something of 'God' simply for the sake of unloading one's soal, then I see no problem with it. But if one does not believe in God, than what additional good would come from praying? I can see none.

 

[Aquitaine]

For atheists only or those who are just wearing their atheist hat today:-

Could you see any use in prayer feeling that no god is there to listen?

To open the question further, if there are no supernatural causes, what traditional religious practices would still serve a useful purpose?

Although I'm technically not an Atheist, no - prayer is totally useless unless you're only doing it for teh LuLz.

 

[logician]

For atheists only or those who are just wearing their atheist hat today:-

Could you see any use in prayer feeling that no god is there to listen?

To open the question further, if there are no supernatural causes, what traditional religious practices would still serve a useful purpose?

I believe prayer does more harm than good as it gives false hope to the person praying. Also, prayers logically cannot work in many cases, because people would be praying at cross purposes, i.e. people on both sides of a war praying for victory, or praying for rain which might mean someone else doesn't get it.

 

[Willamena]

I believe prayer does more harm than good as it gives false hope to the person praying.

Only if they're praying for false hope.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Only if they're praying for false hope.

I disagree. I think logician has a point: IMO, in many cases, prayer is used to satisfy a desire to take action when confronted with something that troubles them.

IOW, it satisfies the craving for positive action without actually creating positive change.

Personally, I have no use for prayer. I can appreciate the potential benefits of the meditation in meditative prayer, but if I want them, I'll just meditate... no prayer involved.

 

[Willamena]

Alright; but I disagree that you've disagreed with me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Alright; but I disagree that you've disagreed with me.

Hmm. I guess it depends on how you approach things. I first took your post one way ("only prayers intended to create false hope yield false hope"), but I suppose it can be interpreted another way ("only prayers that result in false hope, whether or not the one praying knows they're false, yield false hope"), though since it's pretty much a tautology, I assumed it wasn't what you were going for. Was I wrong?

 

[Willamena]

Hmm. I guess it depends on how you approach things. I first took your post one way ("only prayers intended to create false hope yield false hope"), but I suppose it can be interpreted another way ("only prayers that result in false hope, whether or not the one praying knows they're false, yield false hope"), though since it's pretty much a tautology, I assumed it wasn't what you were going for. Was I wrong?

The intended implication in my reply was that people wouldn't pray for false hope, so the hope they receive isn't false.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The intended implication in my reply was that people wouldn't pray for false hope, so the hope they receive isn't false.

I'd say that hope for a thing that has no chance of happening, e.g. divine intervention in a godless universe, is false hope.

 

[MSizer]

I have no use for prayer, at least certainly not the form that takes place in the Judeo Christian traditions. IMO that is purely delusional if you think somebody hears you. On the other hand, I realize there are probably lots of people who think of maditation as a form of prayer, and while I don't practice myself, I'm aware that it has mental and physical health benefits.

As for asking god to make my tomatoes grow, no, absolutely not. Besides, shouldn't he be more worried about preventing child sex abuse than my tomatoes or the outcome of a football game?

 

[Willamena]

I'd say that hope for a thing that has no chance of happening, e.g. divine intervention in a godless universe, is false hope.

I would say so, too. I also think that prayer "satisfies the craving for positive action" without (the need to) actually create positive change.

 

[Tiapan]

Group Therapy

Cheers

 

[logician]

Only if they're praying for false hope.

I heard a lot of praying when I was younger in churches. There's something very arrogant about those who think they can control events thru a secondary source to satisfy their own whims.