Atheists outperform theists at nearly all reasoning skills

[mikkel_the_dane]

The above pertains equally to Hindus, Christians, Muslims, Jews, and theists. Therefore, to try to apply it to just atheists is nonsensical.

And only to apply it to non-theists is nonsensical.

OK.
Some atheists say they find no evidence for a god.
Some atheists say there is no god.
Do they logically agree or disagree on the premise that The Christian God and the Hindu Gods and the Greek gods are man's creations? Yes, they logically agree. Can both be right? Yes, both can be right.

Some atheists say there is evidence for there being no gods.
Some atheists say that this is unknown whether there is a creator god or not. That there is no evidence both in favor of and against a creator god.
There can't be evidence for no gods and no evidence for there not being a creator god.
Do they logically agree with each other? No. Can both be right? No, both cannot be right.
That is the contradiction.
Lack of evidence of a creator god is not evidence for no creator god.

Christians and Muslims will argue that their version of God is the only correct version of God. Do they logically agree with each other? No. Can both be right? No, both cannot be right.

Yes. Correct.

You have a problem with a link?

If you have problems with concepts, then tell us, in your own words, what concepts you have problems with.

That atheists contradicts among them as for what morality is. I.e. meta-ethics and realism versus anti-realism.

One thing you can look at is the ethics as espoused by the Christian Bible and compare them to American laws which have, at least recently, discarded reliance on The Bible. As just one example, slavery was once accepted with Biblical support. Now slavery is prohibited.

Miscegeny and laws against homosexuals would be a couple more examples.

Yes, and so what in the following sense - could you please explain what morality has to do with reason and how morality/ethics/politics differ among atheists. E.g. communism can't both be true and not true.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

no really......what if God responds to you?.....in your frame of mind and heart

Unless it does so in such a way to prove it IS god, and not some bit of un-digested bacon?

It's just a delusion-- the human brain is quite good at creating delusional states. We do it every night, and call those 'dreams'.

Since it's a god, it automatically has the knowledge of how to prove it's real.

Gods that refuse to prove they are real? Are automatically evil.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I don't understand how you 1) claimed to have adhered to scripture in the past and 2) argue now against scripture when you deny very basic scriptural concepts, like that found in 2 Cor 5:21, "God made him who had no sin to BE sin for us, so that in him we might BECOME the righteousness of God."
.

What a giant ball of Straw Man you just built, there!

That's so cute-- your giant pile of protective imaginary straw, is in no way connected to me or anything I've ever said.

As for denying your immoral bible? It says-- literally--how to care for your slaves.

IT NEVER SAYS TO NOT OWN PEOPLE.

So. It's a completely immoral book-- there is nothing of value within it's pages.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Logically, God is not only loving, but exhibits justice..

False. A loving god would not create a hideously immoral torture-pit. That's not love-- that is HATE.

You need to re-examine the word "logically". You keep miss-using it...

Logically, justice exists. .

Does it? Really? Care to prove your claim? No?

I thought not.

Logically, Jesus died to satisfy God's justice, .

Again-- you misuse the word "logically". In truth? IT IS NOT JUST TO MURDER SOMEONE ELSE FOR A CRIME THEY DID NOT DO.

your god's "justice" IS INCREDIBLY SADISTIC AND CRUEL.

so why would I willingly choose to be in pits of torture not made for me, but for Satan's group?!

Any being who even contemplates the creation of infinite torture? CANNOT BE GOOD.

If this being then creates Infinite Torture? IT IS INFINITE EVIL.

 

[BilliardsBall]

God, you have told us, has existed forever.
Jesus didn't exist until about 2000 years ago.
Half God had His other Half God (The Holy Ghost) impregnate a young virgin.
Out of all of eternity, Jesus lived on earth only about 30 years - not even a blink in the eye of an eternal God.
During that time he was tortured for a relative millisecond.

It's far more painful for a human to cut one hair off his head.

How can you argue against the Bible while making singularly uniformed statements like "Jesus didn't exist until about 2000 years ago."

Maybe read, um, the first verses of John's gospel, then get back to me.

 

[BilliardsBall]

What a giant ball of Straw Man you just built, there!

That's so cute-- your giant pile of protective imaginary straw, is in no way connected to me or anything I've ever said.

As for denying your immoral bible? It says-- literally--how to care for your slaves.

IT NEVER SAYS TO NOT OWN PEOPLE.

So. It's a completely immoral book-- there is nothing of value within it's pages.

Your response has nothing to do with the verse/doctrinal point I was making. Are you being rhetorical or asking for a response?

 

[BilliardsBall]

False. A loving god would not create a hideously immoral torture-pit. That's not love-- that is HATE.

You need to re-examine the word "logically". You keep miss-using it...



Does it? Really? Care to prove your claim? No?

I thought not.


Again-- you misuse the word "logically". In truth? IT IS NOT JUST TO MURDER SOMEONE ELSE FOR A CRIME THEY DID NOT DO.

your god's "justice" IS INCREDIBLY SADISTIC AND CRUEL.


Any being who even contemplates the creation of infinite torture? CANNOT BE GOOD.

If this being then creates Infinite Torture? IT IS INFINITE EVIL.

I don't understand, you question whether logically speaking, justice can exist (as in your comment above), then accuse God of being unjust?

And your logic--defies logic. I wrote to say Jesus died for being sinful on the cross and you again complain, "IT IS NOT JUST TO MURDER SOMEONE ELSE FOR A CRIME THEY DID NOT DO." Address the Bible's remarks that Jesus BECAME sin for us and was killed for SIN, and then decide what new item you'd like to rant about, perhaps!

 

[Thief]

Gods that refuse to prove they are real? Are automatically evil.

not sure how that works....

a Spirit real enough to make refusal
and you insist that Spirit provides proof
and that Spirit remains aloof

so you reason that Spirit to be evil

ok....but if it is already real enough to make denial
and you know that spirit to be evil
then are you not tempting that spirit?

kinda like poking at a large guy...that doen't like you

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

How can you argue against the Bible while making singularly uniformed statements like "Jesus didn't exist until about 2000 years ago."

Maybe read, um, the first verses of John's gospel, then get back to me.

Well, to be clear: Jesus did not exist until the Heretic Paul first wrote about a purely Celestial Being, sometime in the first century. And then, Jesus only exists within Paul's writings....

Jesus as a Man, did not appear until several generations later-- again, only in Literature...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Your response has nothing to do with the verse/doctrinal point I was making. Are you being rhetorical or asking for a response?

Nope-- it has 100% to do with the point you failed to make.

You attempted to use a very immoral book (bible) to argue your moral case.

You undermined your argument from the start.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand, you question whether logically speaking, justice can exist (as in your comment above), then accuse God of being unjust?.

Of course you don't: You have show, time and time again, that you have no idea what "Justice" is, nor do you know what "Logic" means.

Just using the description of your bible? We can determine your god is the opposite of "Just"-- and is therefore, immoral.

This is the logical conclusion based on what the bible describes!

It is Un-Just to use a Scape-Goat-- that's considered Immoral.

Jesus, as written, would be the Ultimate Scape Goat: Ultimate Immorality.

Justice requires Morality.

And your logic--defies logic. .

You show again and again, that you have no idea what "logic" even means! YOU JUST SHOW IT AGAIN, HERE!

I wrote to say Jesus died for being sinful ... .

Which would be contrary to what the BIBLE states...!

Why do you make such obviously false claims!

... on the cross and you again complain, "IT IS NOT JUST TO MURDER SOMEONE ELSE FOR A CRIME THEY DID NOT DO." .

Again-- logic escapes you-- the bible says OVER AND OVER, that Jesus is PURE, SINLESS, INNOCENT.

Address the Bible's remarks that Jesus BECAME sin

That is one of the most illogical things you have said! And-- that's actually quite impressive, considering your record so far...!

"SIN" isn't a rock, or a bucket of sand, or a new iPod.

"SIN" isn't a thing.... yet your sentence above requires exactly that!

Wow..... that's actually kinda breath-taking, in it's Fractal Wrongness.

for us and was killed for SIN, and then decide what new item you'd like to rant about, perhaps!

See above.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

not sure how that works....

a Spirit real enough to make refusal
and you insist that Spirit provides proof
and that Spirit remains aloof.

False. The fact I do not believe you? Is ample proof, that your god has failed.

In fact? The existence of even one (1) atheist proves that.

'Gods that fail to prove they are real, are evil' remains unrefuted.

so you reason that Spirit to be evil

ok....but if it is already real enough to make denial
and you know that spirit to be evil
then are you not tempting that spirit?

kinda like poking at a large guy...that doen't like you

LOL! First, you have to establish this "large guy" even exists!

You presume that I think it does. If I thought your 'large guy' were real?

I'd not be an atheist.... !!! That is kinda how it works...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

not sure how that works....

a Spirit real enough to make refusal
and you insist that Spirit provides proof
and that Spirit remains aloof

so you reason that Spirit to be evil

ok....but if it is already real enough to make denial
and you know that spirit to be evil
then are you not tempting that spirit?

kinda like poking at a large guy...that doen't like you

IT HIT ME: your argument, above? Is already addressed, long ago.

Pascal's Wager. Which is a failed idea.

I actually think Pascal was a closet non-believer, and wrote that as a Joke on theists of that day and age. They foolishly grabbed onto it as the Best Argument Ever.

When in reality? Pascal's Wager paints god as a kind of dumb school-yard bully, easily fooled into not bothering you, by giving him a fake coin of some sort, one that has no real value. And the bully is Satisfied.

 

[Thief]

IT HIT ME: your argument, above? Is already addressed, long ago.

Pascal's Wager. Which is a failed idea.

I actually think Pascal was a closet non-believer, and wrote that as a Joke on theists of that day and age. They foolishly grabbed onto it as the Best Argument Ever.

When in reality? Pascal's Wager paints god as a kind of dumb school-yard bully, easily fooled into not bothering you, by giving him a fake coin of some sort, one that has no real value. And the bully is Satisfied.

so you prefer to assume...…...nothing Greater than you

and building upon assumption.....you will rest peacefully in your box.....in the ground

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

so you prefer to assume...…...nothing Greater than you.

LOL! How did you get THAT from what I said, above?

Projection, much?

and building upon assumption.....you will rest peacefully in your box.....in the ground

No? I won't be buried-- that's an absolute waste of both money and real estate.

 

[atanu]

There is no single type of measurement that can capture all aspects of human existence, especially in relation to happiness and fulfilment.

Cognitive research has revealed that each of us has two types of intelligence, known as fluid and crystallized. Fluid intelligence is our capacity to reason and solve novel problems, independent of knowledge from the past, and it peaks earlier in life. Crystallized intelligence is the ability to use skills, knowledge and experience; it shows rising levels of performance well into middle age and beyond.

Psychologists use the term ‘executive function’ to indicate neurological maturity. Executive function has nothing to do with IQ, potential or talent. It is simply the ability to see ahead and plan effectively, to connect actions to possible consequences, to see the probabilities of risk and reward.

In my view, most spiritual/religious persons would be rich in the knowledge of futility of small gains. We know too well that death snatches away all pride related to one’s intellect-wealth-fame, the physical parameters that gauge success in world.

It’s Never Too Late to Start a Brilliant Career

 

[atanu]

LOL! First, you have to establish this "large guy" even exists!

LOL! Ever questioned deeply where in you the I sense comes from? Does it really come from mechanical play of chemicals? If so, then what is your reality?

 

[Thief]

and I would add to that.....

are you?.... your own handiwork

if so.....your fate is your fault
( or maybe you would prefer to blame someone else anyway)

but you can't blame God

( in all fairness.....even if you DO believe in God....
can you blame Him for your faults?)

new topic...????

 

[Audie]

And only to apply it to non-theists is nonsensical.


Some atheists say there is evidence for there being no gods.
Some atheists say that this is unknown whether there is a creator god or not. That there is no evidence both in favor of and against a creator god.
There can't be evidence for no gods and no evidence for there not being a creator god.
Do they logically agree with each other? No. Can both be right? No, both cannot be right.
That is the contradiction.
Lack of evidence of a creator god is not evidence for no creator god.



Yes. Correct.



That atheists contradicts among them as for what morality is. I.e. meta-ethics and realism versus anti-realism.



Yes, and so what in the following sense - could you please explain what morality has to do with reason and how morality/ethics/politics differ among atheists. E.g. communism can't both be true and not true.

Lets see how you do at logic.
Lack of evidence of a creator god is not evidence for no creator god.

Lets change "god" to buffalo herd.

You believe in "god" though you cannot see it.
Lets say you believe in a buffalo herd.

You call the police, to report that ten thousand
wild buffalo stampeded through your house!

It could happen, you know. It is absolutely possible.
If you have enough money, you could arrange it yourself.

So, believe it, report it.
The police come. They look about.
Where are those pesky buffalo???

Your white shag carpet is clean. The petunias
in the yard are undamaged. No hoofprints in
the Bermuda grass. No hairs, no buffalo chips,
no smell, nothing.
The neighbours deny seeing any buffalo.
Aerial surveillance fails to detect them anywhere.

The police listen to your repeated assertions that
they were here, right here, you saw them!!

Now they are trying to decide whether to charge
you with false reporting, or take you in for, ah,
protective custody, yes, for your protection
while they have you examined.

But! Little were they prepared for what you would
say now:

Lack of evidence of a creator god (uh, like, I mean
ten thousand wild buffalo) is not evidence for no
creator god who poofed them buffalo in and out
of existence. I saw them!!!

Cops scratch their heads, and say, well, "Ya got
us there, yeah, logical, come to think of it
it does seem like a faint whiff of wild buffalo
herd smell is in the air. Lets go boys, and oh.
be careful, they may come back."

 

[BilliardsBall]

.

Of course you don't: You have show, time and time again, that you have no idea what "Justice" is, nor do you know what "Logic" means.

Just using the description of your bible? We can determine your god is the opposite of "Just"-- and is therefore, immoral.

This is the logical conclusion based on what the bible describes!

It is Un-Just to use a Scape-Goat-- that's considered Immoral.

Jesus, as written, would be the Ultimate Scape Goat: Ultimate Immorality.

Justice requires Morality.



You show again and again, that you have no idea what "logic" even means! YOU JUST SHOW IT AGAIN, HERE!


Which would be contrary to what the BIBLE states...!

Why do you make such obviously false claims!



Again-- logic escapes you-- the bible says OVER AND OVER, that Jesus is PURE, SINLESS, INNOCENT.



That is one of the most illogical things you have said! And-- that's actually quite impressive, considering your record so far...!

"SIN" isn't a rock, or a bucket of sand, or a new iPod.

"SIN" isn't a thing.... yet your sentence above requires exactly that!

Wow..... that's actually kinda breath-taking, in it's Fractal Wrongness.


See above.[/QUOTE]

Again: The Bible says "He made Him without sin to BECOME sin for us." I'm (sometimes) happy to argue the Bible with you, but first let's choose to debate what it actually says!