Atheists questioning their Atheism?

[Penumbra]

You missed one out Penumbra. Some atheists such as myself have always been atheist because it was apparant that the claims religion made were complete nonsese. I also didn't believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy or any of the other countless things which children are taught are real because again it sounded like nonsense and it was far more plausable that it was my parents doing. I was also exposed to science from a young age which possibly contributed to innoculating me against the appeal of the God explanation.

It was not meant to be a completely exhaustive list, but instead to get the basic point across.

What you describe sounds like it fits with the last group, anyway. By having a scientific mindset and thinking in terms of plausibility, you're looking at things in terms of evidence or lackthereof.

 

[Alceste]

This is an interesting topic. I think that believers are constantly questioning their faith, their purpose, and the question of God, especially in secular societies, but how many atheists question their convictions and certainties regarding God is a good topic of debate.

I'm sure there are atheists who find their way to God. Look at the Soviet Union for example, there were millions of people who were taught atheism, who were told there is no God, and grew up in completely atheistic families - but Christianity is a thriving religion in Russia today, so I'm sure there people who question their disbelief.

Speaking from personal experience, I was not raised in a religious household, nor exposed to religion as a child, but I found my way on my own.

That's not entirely true about Russia. Children didn't have atheism "taught" to them, but the open practice of religion was not permitted by the state. Religious people still met in each other's houses. People still taught the religion of their parents to their children, which is generally how such things are perpetuated.

 

[asketikos]

That's not entirely true about Russia. Children didn't have atheism "taught" to them, but the open practice of religion was not permitted by the state. Religious people still met in each others houses. People still taught the religion of their parents to their children, which is generally how such things are perpetuated.

Yes atheism was part of the school curriculum. It is Marxist doctrine, so it was a state necessity to train children in all the arguments against faith, to be an atheist.

Sure some people maintained the traditions of Orthodoxy. But not a lot. It was not a big part of Russian life. Yet after the fall of the USSR it has risen significantly, with millions of people joining the church who were previously never exposed to religion or were baptized. Cool book on the subject: A Long Walk To Church.

 

[LuisDantas]

They actually taught atheism? Weird.

 

[asketikos]

Of course, they had courses on why god doesn't exist and how religion was the poison of the masses. Marxism preaches atheism, and religion is one of Marx's greatest examples throughout his works of class oppression. Atheism 's a central tenet of Marxism, if it weren't then they wouldn't have murdered thousands of priests and demolished thousands of churches.

 

[LuisDantas]

That sounds so absurd.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Communism in general is very anti-religion Luis, and if you want an example, look no further then China. China is even persecuting Buddhists now, doing things like passing laws banning reincarnation without government permission.

 

[Nooj]

Communism doesn't have to be anti-religious though.

China was another example of a state that enforced atheism. Like post-Soviet Russia, its religious population has exploded. Let freedom ring and all that.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, that goes beyond absurd, straight into plain ridiculous.

Although technically, I must say that China is more of a Theocracy, since it makes a point of ruling on religious concepts and even apointing its own Tulku candidates.

 

[asketikos]

Of course its absurd, I fully agree.

Militant atheism in that sense can be just as dangerous, probably even more, than religious fundementalism.

But how can communism not be anti-religious? The whole foundation of Marxism rests on the denouncing of religion as a creation myth used to suppress and oppress people.

But perhaps you're speaking of some other communism?

 

[EverChanging]

Yes, atheists question their atheism. I did. Eventually, I ended up changing not my views about a theistic deity, but my views about religion and spirituality in general, which have become more complex and nuanced. But I did sometimes question my atheism. I now often find debates between skeptics and the religious shallow or simplistic, for the most part. It's so often one side trying to belittle the other without a regard for true interaction or learning. That's the problem.

That being said, I am an atheist if by that one means that I don't believe in theistic deities or the supernatural. I don't believe in things like dualism, or souls, or spiritual realms, ESP, free will, and the like. But I am very religious, though I tried to suppress that unsuccessfully for a long time. I believe that it is hardwired into me, quite literally.

 

[Nooj]

But how can communism not be anti-religious? The whole foundation of Marxism rests on the denouncing of religion as a creation myth used to suppress and oppress people.

But perhaps you're speaking of some other communism?

Indeed.

 

[Alceste]

Of course its absurd, I fully agree.

Militant atheism in that sense can be just as dangerous, probably even more, than religious fundementalism.

But how can communism not be anti-religious? The whole foundation of Marxism rests on the denouncing of religion as a creation myth used to suppress and oppress people.

But perhaps you're speaking of some other communism?

No, the "whole foundation" of Marxism is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". The topic of religion is quite peripheral to the central ideology. Did Mao and Stalin take Marx's offhand opinion on religion and turn it into an era of brutal religious repression? Certainly. Could they have skipped that entire campaign and still been communists? Absolutely. Jesus himself was a communist.

 

[asketikos]

No, the "whole foundation" of Marxism is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". The topic of religion is quite peripheral to the central ideology. Did Mao and Stalin take Marx's offhand opinion on religion and turn it into an era of brutal religious repression? Certainly. Could they have skipped that entire campaign and still been communists? Absolutely. Jesus himself was a communist.

I would disagree w/ you there. The foundation of Marxism is class warfare, without it there is no Marxism.

The catchy slogan that Marx used in the critique of the Gotha Program was used to summarize life in an ideal communist society - a society where there is no labor anymore.

But in order to get to that society Marx was very blunt about his distaste and distrust of the church. The only people Marx trusted w/ the revolution were the workers, everyone else, remember, was a "class enemy," especially the church, whom he saw as merchants of a false ideology and a kind of slavery. Stalin and Mao took their ques from Lenin, who went on an open rampage against religion.

Atheism wasn't peripheral for Marxist-Leninists, it was central to their ideology and worldview. They saw themselves as atheists and saw it their duty to indoctrinate the world in their worldview; the systematic destruction of church's and clergy was not a peripheral act that they could have done without, but religion threatened the foundations of Marxism, and it was a dedicated systematic eradication in the USSR, just as in China, North Korea, Vietnam, and Cuba.

This is why the official belief of the state was proclaimed atheism.

Don't want to start a long debate here, but I do want people to remember what happened there, and the millions of Christians persecuted.

And yes, I guess you were talking about communism w/ a small c. Saying Jesus was a communist is a pretty big leap.

 

[Nooj]

Don't want to start a long debate here, but I do want people to remember what happened there, and the millions of Christians persecuted.

Ehem, millions of Muslims and other religious folk were persecuted as well.

 

[Orias]

Ehem, millions of Muslims and other religious folk were persecuted as well.

Heh, and where were the atheists during all of this?:beach:

 

[Caladan]

Heh, and where were the atheists during all of this?:beach:

Well didn't you get the memo? Atheist Russian Jews are behind the communist movement in its entirety.

 

[Orias]

Well didn't you get the memo? Atheist Russian Jews are behind the communist movement in its entirety.

Those deceitful little turrets :troll:

 

[asketikos]

Ehem, millions of Muslims and other religious folk were persecuted as well.

From wikipedia:

Unlike the Russian Orthodox Christian church, the Muslims of the Soviet Union originally encountered a larger degree of religious freedom under the new Bolshevik rule.
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Millions of Muslim's weren't killed because they were Muslim in the Soviet Union. There is no proof of this, other folks persecuted yes, of course. Many of them were deported, but that had little to do w/ them being Muslim, and more to do with nationalist tendancies. No one single person's persecution is worth more or less, all are equally abhorrent. But I was making a point that the Bolsheviks saw Christianity as a force that had to be destroyed in Russia and the Soviet Union, actively, and systematically, because it contradicted much of Marxist teachings.

I was not attempting to blame anyone or martyr anyone -- Jews were also terribly persecuted in the Soviet Union.

 

[laffy_taffy]

Does this ever happen? I notice Atheists like to push Theists to question Theism, or even sometimes accuse Theists of not questioning enough because we didn't arrive at Atheism. Now I ask this. Do Atheists ever question their Atheism?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Atheism is a word used to describe those who lack a belief in one particular thing (gods). As an atheist, I do not hold the belief that gods exist and I do not hold the belief that gods do not exist. If a god happens to exist, I do not currently have a belief in it as I have not been provided with any convincing evidence to lead me to believe in it at this time. Since I have always been open to evidence one way or another, I am not sure what it is that I am to question about my not having a belief in any god......