Atheists, so WHY are we really on a 'religious' forum

[it's_sam]

my "compliment" was meant to Caladan as a person before he is a athiest. If you want me to say how i feel about him being an athiest id say i think he is selling himself short giving his aim a title, but that wasnt the focus. If you want to think im condescending by all means dont let me stop you. You didnt target religion Caladan but athiests DID. You are involved in this conflict because of your choice of title to have us use as our base for engagement. If you want to stunt your personal growth by not recognizing it i cant stop you but if you open a thread concerning athiests posting on a religious forum your going to hear the truth of what happens on those sides. Most athiests deny religion from their lives, again this is unlike the action of Caladan. Most athiests work toward driving people from "brainwashing" religions, again unlike the actions of Caladan. If he wants to call himself a athiest he will have to re-define the meaning of the word atleast to alot of us due to the majority of athiest arguments. I may understand where you are comming from Caladan but can you realy believe all athiests come from the same place? Unlike smoke's comment who is convincing himself of whatever he wants to justify me being on the wrong end, i am still under the impression we are all the same at heart and have but one path home and that is together. I was not assuming he was athiest, but athiest do assume much that athiests say can't be answered or proven, but in most cases its just because they don't want to see the REAL underlining truth both sides have a very good point. If any offense was taken by Caladan i do appoligize, but i again don't know what is so wrong about saying, HEY i see what you do man... good job, respect brother. I fear for Caladan's retort to people who see athiest and think what they think not knowing what to expect, because i did this as well to him in my first post. I dont call myself a religion because even though my life is for God and i will never live any other way, i also am aware of what people have done to those names. If i open a conversation saying im a devout christian it automaticaly changes the realm of conversation, and likewise for athiest. i choose to do this not because i just dont agree but i do it because i dont have time to argue over what most christians believe and how i see it. If telling you the truth of athiests actions is insulting i really can't help you there but i am aiming no insults at anyone directly in here its just so close to the bush you think im shaking it with a stick. where is the real buzz?

 

[Caladan]

Don't worry about it its sam. as for those atheists who engage in nothing but antagonizing religious people, I can tell you that they puzzle many atheists themselves. religion is a powerful phenomenon, and people are going to have to do much more than insulting religious beliefs if they want to minimize the religious influences that they are concerned about, if there are atheists who believe that they are in a battle with religion, and their method of war is to antagonize religious beliefs, they have already lost the battle.

 

[Smoke]

my "compliment" was meant to Caladan as a person before he is a athiest. If you want me to say how i feel about him being an athiest id say i think he is selling himself short giving his aim a title, but that wasnt the focus. If you want to think im condescending by all means dont let me stop you. You didnt target religion Caladan but athiests DID. You are involved in this conflict because of your choice of title to have us use as our base for engagement. If you want to stunt your personal growth by not recognizing it i cant stop you but if you open a thread concerning athiests posting on a religious forum your going to hear the truth of what happens on those sides. Most athiests deny religion from their lives, again this is unlike the action of Caladan. Most athiests work toward driving people from "brainwashing" religions, again unlike the actions of Caladan. If he wants to call himself a athiest he will have to re-define the meaning of the word atleast to alot of us due to the majority of athiest arguments. I may understand where you are comming from Caladan but can you realy believe all athiests come from the same place? Unlike smoke's comment who is convincing himself of whatever he wants to justify me being on the wrong end, i am still under the impression we are all the same at heart and have but one path home and that is together. I was not assuming he was athiest, but athiest do assume much that athiests say can't be answered or proven, but in most cases its just because they don't want to see the REAL underlining truth both sides have a very good point. If any offense was taken by Caladan i do appoligize, but i again don't know what is so wrong about saying, HEY i see what you do man... good job, respect brother. I fear for Caladan's retort to people who see athiest and think what they think not knowing what to expect, because i did this as well to him in my first post. I dont call myself a religion because even though my life is for God and i will never live any other way, i also am aware of what people have done to those names. If i open a conversation saying im a devout christian it automaticaly changes the realm of conversation, and likewise for athiest. i choose to do this not because i just dont agree but i do it because i dont have time to argue over what most christians believe and how i see it. If telling you the truth of athiests actions is insulting i really can't help you there but i am aiming no insults at anyone directly in here its just so close to the bush you think im shaking it with a stick. where is the real buzz?

I see. I understand that you mean well. Most people who believe in God are petty, hateful, small-minded, unwashed, disease-ridden morons, but you seem to be a decent person, unlike those other god-believers. A true atheist, even if you sell yourself short by saying you believe in god.

Do you understand now?

 

[it's_sam]

Thank you Caladan BTW back to one of my questions and also your first "why are we on a religious forum" what brought you to athiesm that you weren't finding otherwise?

 

[it's_sam]

i would also like to hear your story as well smoke, lets say a we start a "blank" understanding of atheist and have you guys fill us in on the intricate parts of what that means to you.

 

[Father Heathen]

What makes me interested in religion is how it influences people culturally, socially, psychologically, and politically. It is a fun topic to discuss and debate.

 

[S-word]

Since this question seems to be haunting us on the forum, maybe its about time we hear it straight from the horse's mouth, and see what atheists have to say on this topic.

I'll start with a modest presentation.
if you notice, the main directory of this forum is titled Religious Education Forum, and this is a main reason for me being here, education.
We live in a world in which religion is an intense factor and a phenomenon which has shaped much of our history and is shaping our reality today.
I'm here because I am deeply concerned by the political and social tensions in our societies and on the world stage in which religion is a major player. whether we dicuss global terrorism, the influence of religion and international politics, homosexuality and religion, the theology of religions, or the mysticism of the world religions, all of these issues are highly relevant for anyone who wishes to 'stay in the game', and to understand current events. we are all directly influenced by religion, and we can all directly influence affairs in which religion is a player, we have the duty as citizens to understand our society and the world, and some of us also have the desire to learn for the sake of learning, in order to sharpen our mind and be informed.
religion is involved in too many issues to count in our societies, from the emergence of the New Age in the west, to Buddhism in the US, to the importance of issues of Christianity in the US, to the debate between secular Europe and Islam in Europe, to Islam in the middle east and outside the middle east, and to understanding religious movements in the US, such as Wicca, neo-paganism, and the different branches of Satanism or the Left Hand Path.
As an atheist, it is crucial for me to understand all of these tensions in order to find my place in the world, and in order to manifest the interests which I have decided that I want to see take place in society.
to me atheism is about education and being as much informed as you can about religion.

So, lets hear it from our atheist members. here is your chance to clear the misconceptions.

A well informed and enlightening answer, we have need of all types and beliefs in the negative and postive flows of the forces of life that shapen the destininy of the Omega, who already exists in the fourth dimension, and has no desire to change the past that has made him "Who He Is."

 

[Caladan]

Thank you Caladan BTW back to one of my questions and also your first "why are we on a religious forum" what brought you to athiesm that you weren't finding otherwise?

Being part of a conflict in the middle east is a major element in my understanding that people need to understand their religions, and not necessarily adhere to them, sometimes we need to suspend our own spiritual agendas in order to get a better view of the bigger picture, religion in middle eastern conflicts is a very complicated matter, which was unfortunately misunderstood and not taken into a more serious consideration in past political summits.
furthermore, I want to live in a society where the GLBT community is not discriminated against, and where a religious authority does not have an influence on the lives of secular people.
religion can be a driving force for great human wealth, or it can be misused, I think that the lesson is that people need to master their religion and not be slaves to dogma and chauvinistic old men.

 

[it's_sam]

Sounds identitcal to some stories i've read about a guy named jesus . This is the cross he meant us to bare in his absence because it is up to us to find what he felt in his heart that drove him to try and change what he saw. Even if you disprove the miracles his goal was overbearing because it was a real issue that people were influanced or pushed by. My heart goes out to you and yours in the middle-east, i have had friends from similair areas and i know how frighteningly real a difference can become a reason to someone. I have had more then a few debates about muslim rule "since it is a government as well", and I see it similair to the civil wars in america. The old way protecting the old and the new trying to find protection for the future. I have also had many dead ends as far as what you would even try to get to people that 1. don't need to listen, 2. will probably try to kill you if you try to get them to understand, and 3. could quickly go hide in just about any area and yet still live perty much the same quality of life if not allil more cautiousely. Atleast in most cases in the civil wars, they owned a farm or something they aren't willing to uproot and move, forcing them to listen to some degree and eventualy see the original intent.

 

[it's_sam]

furthermore, I want to live in a society where the GLBT community is not discriminated against, and where a religious authority does not have an influence on the lives of secular people.
religion can be a driving force for great human wealth, or it can be misused, I think that the lesson is that people need to master their religion and not be slaves to dogma and chauvinistic old men.

This is too true, and goes beyond religion. The fact is that certain people will see a weakness they can exploit and they will do it IF they find it to be worthewhile. Corperate companies swindle and enslave everyday but they are forced to follow a guideline on this as far as pay off to the worker. This won't stop embessling though or abuse for that matter and now independant companies are growing back into power 1. because the workers have a better home, and 2. their position is a personal matter in most cases and not depending on their statistics if they keep their job or not. My point is people will always find a loophole to use, we have to show the pay-off isnt worthe it for that path to not be used. Your absolutely right we need to master it in ourselves before it can reach the world in a worthy understanding.

 

[it's_sam]

I'd like to use an example of something discussed on another thread wich was the process in court if a woman is raped in a muslim community and has to produce the 4 witnesses for the court to proceed, under the understanding that putting the woman infront of all these people and reliving the experience would be humilliating. I understand the reasoning of this but what if the woman is unable to produce any witness? Is she then allowed the option of testifying or waving the right? A good cause turned bad, and the side with the good intent does nothing to change this lapse of justice regardless of the effect it can have. Again if someone is to associate themselves with a name they have to be responsible for what that name is living out.

 

[Danmac]

Members of RF who are atheists have nothing to justify, and its tragic to see some 'believers' take this thread out of context and off topic. this forum was created for your convenience by an Atheist, does the founder of RF need to justify his presence here?

My apologies. I should have started a "why do religious people feel the need to but into atheist threads" thread. btw I should not have lumped all atheists together. Some like yourself are considerate. My apologies.

 

[it's_sam]

because Danmac like yourself we long for a understanding beyond ourselves and that can connect to all others for our goal of abbollishing negative deeds with a judicial system to back this up. People have never stopped and i say again it is really amazing to see people comming together world wide, whether it be debate or jokes we are expanding ourselves and able to come to conclusions otherwise impossible in a realm of safety prior to recent times.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

1) Religion surrounds us in society & government.
2) Religion is interesting....a window into how the mind works.
3) I make friends talking about it.
4) The babes.....the believers have hot babes.
5) I can make the fundies less threatened by my kind. I know, I know...you could use a better positive example than me.

Listen to this man.
He is a genius! :yes:

 

[it's_sam]

HAHA murph your randomness never ceeses to amaze me either

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Perhaps the hubris was in your suggestion that an atheist could possibly have anything positive or relevant to contribute to the direction of society.

Wow... what an anti-democratic statement.

Believers who tell you you're a Christian at heart, or things along those lines, aren't being snarky. They genuinely think it's a compliment, like white people who "compliment" a black man by saying he's very clean and articulate. It's the assumptions that lie behind the remark that are insulting.

I'm sometimes tempted to respond to people who use the term "Christian" as a compliment by telling them that they're being very "white"... though I hold back because I think the probability's pretty high that they won't get the point about obsolete expressions that are rooted in prejudice.

However, I don't even think that people who claim that everyone's a "Christian at heart" could be considered to be even giving a misguided compliment. The core of that message is that the atheist is either deluded or lying; it's fundamentally insulting.

my "compliment" was meant to Caladan as a person before he is a athiest.

Atheists are people.

 

[it's_sam]

Atheists are people

i was trying to protray that penguin, i was aproaching the topic to him as a human not an athiest.

 

[Sunstone]

Atheists are people.

Communist.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

In effect, it is similar for me, but for slightly different reasons. You see, Dan, I look at the worlds religions and find that my answers are often better that the simplistic fair they give. My discussions with Buddhist and Zen followers regarding the ludicrous "no/not self" doctrine and the shabby concept of "karma" have highlighted this reality to me. What puzzled me is why people are so hung up on suppositions that they cannot adequately explain. As I said in one thread recently, something to the effect, "how some very intelligent people can come up with such stupid thinking".

Life is never simple.

Atheism. Theism. It's all good. Life is a complex reflection with surfaces not everyone can see.

 

[MissAlice]

My only answer to the OP is to try and learn.

I don't have much education in the subjects of various religions except the one that owns my community.

This may not be the brightest post but I use the internet and the very interactions of people to get a good idea for the very questions I ask myself; why do we need it?, why is it so dominant even in densely populated countries and communities?, why are some people more likely to shun others who either lack faith or are of a different faith?, why do people need to believe in a god that is both ruthless and ready to invoke wrath (if he is such a loving god)?, why do people kill each other for an invisible god knowing that there are other motivations at hand?....etc.

I don't come here to diss other people's faiths, I just come here to learn. Even when my questions are answered, I don't get it. People are ready to give me the reasons as to why their faith allows hypocrisy (not everyone's by the way) and still I find myself baffled and asking more questions. When I do it's either in the form of debates, vile assumptions, blaming and it just makes me more hesitant to ask. I don't pretend to know everything but I do hate it when people attack a question and are ready to insult back. I think...and this is just my limited experience, I get better replies and various perspectives from people of pagan, "spiritual", and Sanātana Dharmic beliefs. Not sure what that's about, I guess I'm just not fond in how many of the abrahamic faiths tend to suppress classes of people. I realize that the very faiths I get better replies from perhaps do the same things but it's much more subliminal and less concrete.