Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[CG Didymus]

You ask the questions but you do not accept the answers we give so that is why there are no Baha'is giving you answers anymore. You have already decided what the answers are so why ask us?

And that is another "minus" zero answer. What is this "answer" that I've already decided on? I ask Baha'is questions about some of their claims that I don't believe are true. If they are about things Baha'is say about the Bible or some of the other religions, the answers I get are, "I don't know the Bible." Or, "I don't know or don't care. Or that, "It's not my job to know about the older religions." Yet, it is Baha'is who say all religions are one and from the one true God.

Okay... how is Hinduism and Buddhism "one" with Christianity? Or Judaism? Or the Baha'i Faith? They aren't. The beliefs contradict. The Baha'i answer.... "They all corrupted the original message that came from the messenger. That original message didn't contradict the other messages. And that is the Baha'is answer and no one should ever, ever question it again, because that answer came from God through his manifestation Baha'u'llah." Or something like that.

Does that answer really make people in the other religions feel as if the Baha'is understand and respect their beliefs? Does that kind of answer promote peace and unity between people in the other religions and the Baha'is? I don't think so. It is another negative number.

 

[CG Didymus]

Flawed man is not equipped to receive an accurate message from an infinite God. The two are incompatible. The messengers were created as perfect mirrors so they could accurately give God's message. Flawed human beings can be inspired by God, but can't be completely accurate. That's my understanding, anyway.

That's the question... Who made man flawed? If God is real and the creator, then it is God who made man flawed. And it is God who could fix those flaws.

Then there are the "perfect" mirrors. Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses? Some or all of them are manifestations in the Baha'i Faith. Not one of them is perfect. All had flaws. Why do any of them have to be anything other than ordinary men? But then, also, how real were they? Baha'is don't believe the stories about them are true.

 

[muhammad_isa]

So, I'm talking about the end-times now. I don't know your beliefs about the Mahdi and Jesus, but when they come, will people "know" God and follow His Law?

Some people will, but not everybody.

However, it will become clearer. Most believers will believe it is the Messiah.
That is, the majority of Christians and Muslims.
The Jews will be divided, as many will still deny Jesus .. but not all. In any case, their number is relatively small, but are significant as they have a reasonable amount of power in the world.

G-d knows best about the rest of the world's population. It will presumably vary according to their status etc.

 

[CG Didymus]

On their authority, after I determined that they had authority.

Okay, how did you "determine" that? On their authority, they had authority? And which messengers did you do this with?

But then you say this, "How could I know they were true Messengers from studying them?"

 

[CG Didymus]

I know this because that is what my religion teaches but also by reading the NT and the Qur'an and seeing the same spiritual teachings.

Okay, you said it. You brought it up. What are the same spiritual teachings you have found in the NT and the Quran? Other than just taking the most simplistic things like, "They both teach love." Or, "They both say not lie."

 

[CG Didymus]

LOL! This reminds me of the Bible-Belt Fundamentalist Christians:
The Bible says it.
I believe it.
That settles it!

I have accused the Baha'is of being fundamentalists. And, if Baha'u'llah is really the return of Christ and everybody else, then they should be. What they are saying would be the truth. And they should tell us all that we are wrong, and they are right. But, because they say it, doesn't settle it.

So many end-time prophecies describe a world in total chaos. One-third or more of the people dying. All kinds of trials and tribulations, then comes the end. Is that what the world was like in 1844? I don't think so. By the way things are going, I think we could be heading for the end-time tribulations now. But then... Who is Baha'u'llah? The Messiah or a false prophet?

 

[CG Didymus]

I don't see people people fighting or arguing over which prophet, and which religion, and which concept of God is true,

Really? So all people and all religion all get along and respect each other?

 

[CG Didymus]

Some people will, but not everybody.

However, it will become clearer. Most believers will believe it is the Messiah.
That is, the majority of Christians and Muslims.
The Jews will be divided, as many will still deny Jesus .. but not all. In any case, their number is relatively small, but are significant as they have a reasonable amount of power in the world.

G-d knows best about the rest of the world's population. It will presumably vary according to their status etc.

Have you read about the Baha'i Faith and how The Bab and Baha'u'llah have fulfilled the prophecies? Because that is the claim, Baha'u'llah is the Messiah. He has already come. And very few people believe him.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Really? So all people and all religion all get along and respect each other?

This quote from Baha'u'llah was read by Christians at the first event for the unity of religion back in 1893

"That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religions should cease and differences of race be annulled. What harm is there in this? Yet so it shall be. These fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come. Do not you in Europe need this also? Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind." – The Baha’i World, Volume 2, p. 169.

Parliament of World Religions: When Faiths First Came Together

Parliament of the World's Religions - Wikipedia

All this still happens around the world.

Regards Tony

 

[Sheldon]

This quote from Baha'u'llah was read by Christians at the first event for the unity of religion back in 1893

"That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religions should cease and differences of race be annulled. What harm is there in this? Yet so it shall be. These fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come. Do not you in Europe need this also? Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind." – The Baha’i World, Volume 2, p. 169.

Parliament of World Religions: When Faiths First Came Together

Parliament of the World's Religions - Wikipedia

All this still happens around the world.

Regards Tony

"The criticism and challenges it has faced vary considerably in different regions of the world. In the West, liberals have criticized the Baháʼí Faith for some of its conservative social practices, notably the prohibition on premarital or homosexual intimacy for Baháʼís. Western academics have criticized the requirement for Baháʼís to seek pre-publication review when publishing on the religion and the exclusion of women from serving on the Universal House of Justice."

It's just another schism of superstition.

 

[Trailblazer]

You asked what would be evidence and then say mean things. Gee thanks. How would you like it if I said you're stupid and inane for believing stupid and inane things. And that your inaness is really stupid. But I would never stoop that low.

I did not call you inane or stupid.

CG Didymus said: I'm talking about a capacity to know and hear God's voice the same as a manifestation. Since God did make some people with that kind of capacity, it's not that he can't do it.

Then I said what I said, what I think is inane and stupid that some people (not you) believe.
I have as much of a right to a personal opinion as you do.

So, God speaking from heaven wouldn't work. And if God raised the spiritual capacity of people to the same level as a manifestation won't work. And why is that? Because God is so stupid to let them misunderstand his direct message? Then God didn't raise their spiritual capacity very high.

Spiritual capacity has nothing to do with being able to understand communication for God. God did not create ordinary humans with the capacity to understand Him directly, but people still have spiritual capacity.

If God wanted to speak from heaven He would.
If God wanted to communicate to people directly He would.
What some people completely miss is that they cannot dictate to God how He should communicate.

But the all-knowing and all-wise God knows these would never work as a method of communicating to humans, so he sent Messengers instead.

 

[rational experiences]

Ahh so your dad has the ability to communicate with God? Was your dad a messenger or Prophet of God? Because the person I was discussing with claims only messengers and Prophets of God can get God's message.

Ahh so your dad has the ability to communicate with God? Was your dad a messenger or Prophet of God? Because the person I was discussing with claims only messengers and Prophets of God can get God's message.

My human father is biological just like my life.

He had sex with my biological mother.

Mother owns the ovary a female human. No father ever owned any ovary. Your history mind state is incomplete. As a self memory human.

His baby man's changed the ovary to reform his life. Human man.

So men once said my holy human mother only.

Now men possessed by science say I am a God...a machine that began with O God planet I named God as a scientist. Theist man human.

Why his brother said in living biology your loss of Dna human only equals a living ape.

I said my theism said my brother. My brother told me as a man a human built God the machine from the dust of the ground. I want to be the machine today warned Stephen Hawking..warned as a real theist brother mind life body genetic loss aware in the sciences.

Not just the natural man changed by mind by cosmic causes of ancient man's science. Biological sacrifice a different conscious aware notification. Ignored as self relevance to always include self presence in any analogy.

Most men don't.

I want to be god the dust. Beginnings of humans man science. Says the thinker as theism took precedence in a man's psyche. The place a machine began.

So he attacked my psyche female with satellite haarp computer A I program. Of which his mind biological as the man life today personally controls. As the human scientist.

Claiming mind control. Let me transmit it and study it to find old machine signals. Gods he says.

Is a human theist man scientist who said to his own man self... if religious idealism about science causes such incorrect thesis then I should give it away.

As such owned thoughts...his owned man presence...his own theisms...as his owned teachings.

As he hears it but in presence biological sex created human is living his own man's experience. Tends to ignore the relevance of his own aware teachings.

Man said possessed by science causes.... I speak on behalf of god O science earth machine first as a theist. Was then mind split given a subliminal feedback psyche who then thought he was God who invented.

By a formula a man theist and machine used. A nothing moment in O earths mass by numbered formula to convert shift energy out of mass.

History...his story God told me how and why. His own man first theist more intelligent more spiritual more innocent higher healthier body. Just a man.

As I got irradiated he sure taught me as my human brother about his scientific God lesson. Scientist. Only I get gods messages rationally. The man in egotism says.

How dare you maths fake mother question my authority. Talking to an irradiated changed human female in natural life science self possessed..

Father human first life biological only. Mother human being first biological only.

Died.

No human exist as sperm was in one body and ovary in another body they owned.

So we babies are virtually living in a past. Created by sex. Knowing the human dies. And we don't die as a God says the psyche. We die as a human.

So brother scientist no human is any God.

I explained why I heard the human scientific machine caused AI effect.

It is a phenomena condition caused by men in science.

One physical being owned no property was natural and never owned the human built machine. Machine as the deity causes conjured reacted in between phenomena manifestations as life gets destroyed attacked in science caused effects.

Why humans said God did evil acts to humans biology. Machine caused status only.

As God the earth in human science is not a machine.

I learnt that an artificial ice melt also not human consciousness displaces living then replaces living by water shift. Mass of.

Causation phenomena in our heavens recorded life human aware shifts it's presence. Communicates back image voice sound displaced by men in science conditions.

All experienced by a living equally owned human being life.

It was a teaching for humans by humans about effects caused to humans in human science.

As no man is God of course I know I don't talk to any machine theism God of man's science.

My father as I live is just my human brother. As long as we live we are mutual life partners. Living..but I heard you by phenomena causes....you men are the only human liars of events as the scientist and theist.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does that answer really make people in the other religions feel as if the Baha'is understand and respect their beliefs? Does that kind of answer promote peace and unity between people in the other religions and the Baha'is? I don't think so. It is another negative number.

You cannot speak for how other people feel. It is only how YOU feel and you are projecting that onto other people. I see nobody complaining that the Baha'is don't know all about their religions. I see nobody expecting Baha'is to know about their religions. It is only YOU who complains because you think that Baha'is are responsible to help you learn about the older religions, but we aren't.

Everything is a negative number for you.

 

[Trailblazer]

And that is the Baha'is answer and no one should ever, ever question it again, because that answer came from God through his manifestation Baha'u'llah." Or something like that.

No, that is not the Baha'i answer. You are constantly distorting what Baha'is believe on this forum.

Baha'is do not question Baha'u'llah because we believe He is a Manifestation of God, but we never said or even implied that "no one should ever, ever question it again, because that answer came from God through his manifestation Baha'u'llah."

 

[Trailblazer]

That's the question... Who made man flawed? If God is real and the creator, then it is God who made man flawed. And it is God who could fix those flaws.

No, God did not make man flawed. Man is by nature fallible and that is what @Truthseeker meant by flawed, and since man is fallible man cannot receive and understand messages from God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then there are the "perfect" mirrors. Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses? Some or all of them are manifestations in the Baha'i Faith. Not one of them is perfect. All had flaws. Why do any of them have to be anything other than ordinary men?

Because God made them that way.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay, how did you "determine" that? On their authority, they had authority? And which messengers did you do this with?

Baha'u'llah.

But then you say this, "How could I know they were true Messengers from studying them?"

I cannot study the older Messengers because there is no information about them that is reliable.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay, you said it. You brought it up. What are the same spiritual teachings you have found in the NT and the Quran? Other than just taking the most simplistic things like, "They both teach love." Or, "They both say not lie."

“the Law of God is divided into two parts. One is the fundamental basis which comprises all spiritual things—that is to say, it refers to the spiritual virtues and divine qualities; this does not change nor alter: it is the Holy of Holies, which is the essence of the Law of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb, and Bahá’u’lláh, and which lasts and is established in all the prophetic cycles. It will never be abrogated, for it is spiritual and not material truth; it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. It shows mercy to the poor, defends the oppressed, gives to the wretched and uplifts the fallen......

These divine qualities, these eternal commandments, will never be abolished; nay, they will last and remain established for ever and ever. These virtues of humanity will be renewed in each of the different cycles; for at the end of every cycle the spiritual Law of God—that is to say, the human virtues—disappears, and only the form subsists.

These foundations of the Religion of God, which are spiritual and which are the virtues of humanity, cannot be abrogated; they are irremovable and eternal, and are renewed in the cycle of every Prophet..”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 47-48

 

[Trailblazer]

So many end-time prophecies describe a world in total chaos. One-third or more of the people dying. All kinds of trials and tribulations, then comes the end. Is that what the world was like in 1844? I don't think so. By the way things are going, I think we could be heading for the end-time tribulations now. But then... Who is Baha'u'llah? The Messiah or a false prophet?

You are going to believe what you want to believe and that will be your ultimate downfall. I tend to believe people who have really studied the Bible and know the history of all the religions.

The great tribulation began with the persecution of the Christians and ends with the persecution of the Baha'is. The greater number of the martyrs have been followers of the Bab.

(Apocalypse Unsealed, p. 121)

Apocalypse Unsealed

 

[Trailblazer]

Really? So all people and all religion all get along and respect each other?

I did not say that.

I said that in real life I don't see people people fighting or arguing over which prophet, and which religion, and which concept of God is true. I only see that on forums.