Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Trailblazer]

People of all faiths say that.

So what? What would that prove about the Baha'i Faith?

You don't care? So you literally do not care what I write, you're just gonna say whatever you want? That's both arrogant and rude of you.

Please do not misrepresent me.
I said: I don't care what you were speaking of, I speak for myself, and I am not arguing against you.
I did not say I do not care about what you write, I said I can speak for myself.

How is me saying whatever I want arrogant or rude? You say whatever you want to say, did I call it arrogant or rude?

I was not talking about conscious biases.

I know you weren't, but I was.
Do you think only what you say matters?
Do you think you can control what other people say?

Here's a crazy idea...

Maybe you can get someone else to look at what you've done, and see if they can spot any places where a subconscious bias has potentially influenced you. After all, it's unlikely they will be affected by the same subconscious biases that you've got, so they'll be better able to see the effect of such biases than you.

Think that might work?

No, that would not work because nobody can know what is in my subconscious, so how can they ever know if or how it has influenced me?

Here's a crazy idea. Why not stop looking at me and my mind and how you think it operates and instead start trying to figure out how your mind operates? All this talk about me is not going to get you any further in your search for the truth about the Baha'i Faith, but if you don't care about that maybe we should close up shop because I am tired of talking about me.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

That's your criteria for concluding that to these two things are alike? It consumes a portion of your life? That is pretty weak tea.

The practice of whatever belief you propose to bring to the table here, is indistinguishable from mine. I practice my faith by philosophizing and debating about the topic. I'm assuming this is the culmination of your religious related activities; debating/chatting about it with real and online acquaintances respectively.

I would presume the usual case applies here, that I'm an outcast of most camps within this website. As I believe the joining together in groups is where religion goes wrong in the first place. Church is an obvious money-scheme, while a good amount of them do give back to the needy within their communities, a whole conversation can be had regarding the pros and cons of these establishments. There's too high a likelihood of the production of these zealot groups that have it stuck in their head that the whole works of the Bible including what are apparent metaphors and outmoded ways of existence as verbatim and laws punishable by committing to contradiction of the 'faith' they claim to keep. People get together in groups like that, and next thing you know babies and children are being used as blood sacrifices in the name of some deity.

Worship of The All is most effectively accomplished by simply trying to be a better 'you' than the 'you' that existed yesterday, and by setting goals to be a better version of that 'you' on the arrival of tomorrow. I find this easiest accomplished in solitude, not with the ringing of cultist chants from 50 strangers. This can and should be practiced, regardless of your perception on higher powers or higher dimensions.

Also... If I brewed it the tea will have a kick, rest assured!

 

[Trailblazer]

I practice my faith by philosophizing and debating about the topic.

That is also what I do. I do not engage with the other members of my religion, only on this forum.

I would presume the usual case applies here, that I'm an outcast of most camps within this website. As I believe the joining together in groups is where religion goes wrong in the first place.

Same here. I don't do groups and I don't fit in anywhere. That is why I am called Trailblazer, I do my own thing.

Worship of The All is most effectively accomplished by simply trying to be a better 'you' than the 'you' that existed yesterday, and by setting goals to be a better version of that 'you' on the arrival of tomorrow. I find this easiest accomplished in solitude,

I agree and that is one reason I am a loner. Also, I am an introverted personality type but I do very well one-on-one on forums.

 

[samtonga43]

So then there is no evidence, all we have is someone's claims that the evidence is real.

Can you imagine if court was like that?

"Yes, your honour. There is evidence that proves my client is innocent without a doubt. No, I can't produce the evidence for the court. No, I haven't seen the evidence myself. But I do have a written statement from a guy who saw it, and I know it's true because I really trust the guy who wrote it."

... and I really trust the guy who wrote it because I like what he wrote.

 

[samtonga43]

That is also what I do. I do not engage with the other members of my religion, only on this forum.

Same here. I don't do groups and I don't fit in anywhere. That is why I am called Trailblazer, I do my own thing.

I agree and that is one reason I am a loner. Also, I am an introverted personality type but I do very well one-on-one on forums.

This is interesting. What do you mean by 'do very well', Tb?

 

[ppp]

The practice of whatever belief you propose to bring to the table here, is indistinguishable from mine. I practice my faith by philosophizing and debating about the topic. I'm assuming this is the culmination of your religious related activities; debating/chatting about it with real and online acquaintances respectively.

I would presume the usual case applies here, that I'm an outcast of most camps within this website. As I believe the joining together in groups is where religion goes wrong in the first place. Church is an obvious money-scheme, while a good amount of them do give back to the needy within their communities, a whole conversation can be had regarding the pros and cons of these establishments. There's too high a likelihood of the production of these zealot groups that have it stuck in their head that the whole works of the Bible including what are apparent metaphors and outmoded ways of existence as verbatim and laws punishable by committing to contradiction of the 'faith' they claim to keep. People get together in groups like that, and next thing you know babies and children are being used as blood sacrifices in the name of some deity.

Worship of The All is most effectively accomplished by simply trying to be a better 'you' than the 'you' that existed yesterday, and by setting goals to be a better version of that 'you' on the arrival of tomorrow. I find this easiest accomplished in solitude, not with the ringing of cultist chants from 50 strangers. This can and should be practiced, regardless of your perception on higher powers or higher dimensions.

Also... If I brewed it the tea will have a kick, rest assured!

Did you have a point?

 

[samtonga43]

No, religion is designed to be unconvincing, except to those who have spiritual eyes and ears and can think logically.

Evidence?

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Did you have a point?

I see one of two reasons for this reply;

A) You honestly did not grasp the 'point' of my post. I find this unlikely, simply from your capability of grasping other much more complex ideas, evident from other posts/replies of yours.

B) A snide attempt at condescension, revealing a possible intent of malcontent. It could be presumed that you're venting the indignation lingering from past experiences with the religious sector.

Either way, it is unnecessary as I'm perfectly willing to have honest conversation and debate if the feeling is mutual.
Leave the 'gotcha' strategies to the twits of Twitter, and the liars of the corporate media, where honesty and nuance die in claustrophobic writhing without room to flourish.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

So then there is no evidence, all we have is someone's claims that the evidence is real.

Can you imagine if court was like that?

"Yes, your honour. There is evidence that proves my client is innocent without a doubt. No, I can't produce the evidence for the court. No, I haven't seen the evidence myself. But I do have a written statement from a guy who saw it, and I know it's true because I really trust the guy who wrote it."

I wish there were no truth to this hyperbolic parody of court proceedings...

The truth is that an officer's word or 'claims' of evidence is often times enough to find a charge unless the defendant has the financial freedom to pay for quality legal representation. Or can provide evidence contrary to the officer's claims.
On paper, a person is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. This would cause your analogy to be inaccurate.
Then you have instances where physical evidence should perhaps hold less gravity than they do. A particular slogan, "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" comes to mind.

 

[ppp]

I see one of two reasons for this reply;

A) You honestly did not grasp the 'point' of my post. I find this unlikely, simply from your capability of grasping other much more complex ideas, evident from other posts/replies of yours.

B) A snide attempt at condescension, revealing a possible intent of malcontent. It could be presumed that you're venting the indignation lingering from past experiences with the religious sector.

Either way, it is unnecessary as I'm perfectly willing to have honest conversation and debate if the feeling is mutual.
Leave the 'gotcha' strategies to the twits of Twitter, and the liars of the corporate media, where honesty and nuance die in claustrophobic writhing without room to flourish.

I guess I'm just not clever enough. Because it seemed like a ramble to me.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

I guess I'm just not clever enough. Because it seemed like a ramble to me.

Perhaps, though you would be a better judge of that than I.

I would argue it is more likely that you're entrenched in the cliches of the internet, and the lack of humane behavior of the denizens there within.

 

[ppp]

Perhaps, though you would be a better judge of that than I.

I would argue it is more likely that you're entrenched in the cliches of the internet, and the lack of humane behavior of the denizens there within.

And I would argue that you are engaging in pop psychology. And moreover that you currently have no capacity to know what I am entrenched and, what I am not. I would further argue that because you lack this capacity, that your "diagnosis" is more about you than me.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is interesting. What do you mean by 'do very well', Tb?

How ironic is that? The Baha'i Faith... the religion that says it wants to bring all people and religions together as one, and the most vocal Baha'i is a loner?

 

[CG Didymus]

Evidence?

The evidence is that it is very unconvincing.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

And I would argue that you are engaging in pop psychology. And moreover that you currently have no capacity to know what I am entrenched and, what I am not. I would further argue that because you lack this capacity, that your "diagnosis" is more about you than me.

I was merely illuminating the more likely of two scenarios. However, before you decide what evaluation or opinion is allowed to another individual, I would remind you of the haughtiness of your previous responses to my posts. Perhaps this was one of the rare instances you so hastily chose to respond with insolence. In the end if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, has down feathers like a duck, has a bill like a duck... It must be a Sasquatch! Right?

You are correct that it is less about you and more about the treatment bestowed upon your audience, although it ultimately hints towards traits found within your character, not theirs.

 

[ppp]

I was merely illuminating the more likely of two scenarios. However, before you decide what evaluation or opinion is allowed to another individual, I would remind you of the haughtiness of your previous responses to my posts. Perhaps this was one of the rare instances you so hastily chose to respond with insolence. In the end if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, has down feathers like a duck, has a bill like a duck... It must be a Sasquatch! Right?

So I am both haughty and insolent, am I? One might even say that I am uppity with an attitude, and that I don't keep to my proper place. Oh, dear.

Oh, dear. Oh, dear. Oh, dear.

I will do my best to act properly deferential when presented with unearned personal presumption.

The practice of whatever belief you propose to bring to the table here, is indistinguishable from mine.

Nah.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

So I am both haughty and insolent, am I?

Yes, and it would seem quite deliberate and persistent.

I will do my best to act properly deferential when presented with unearned personal presumption.

Do you claim to dictate what is deemed an earned or unearned opinion and evaluation within the personal mind of others?

 

[ppp]

Yes, and it would seem quite deliberate and persistent.

I think you have got it surrounded, Mr. Compton. If you are looking for some sort of deference then you may as well mosey on to someone else.

Do you claim to dictate what is deemed an earned or unearned opinion and evaluation within the personal mind of others?

When you claim to be able to make a evaluation of what is in my mind, such as in your statement that I just previously quoted? Damn straight.

 

[Tiberius]

No, I only bring up ad populum when you say that many people agree with you, as if what many people agree with means it is true.

I'm simply stating a fact. Many people HAVE told you the same thing that I have.

How arrogant to assume that they KNOW they are onto something, especially when it is something about me that they cannot possibly know.

Maybe they've spotted one of those subconscious biases you have that you aren't aware of because it's subconscious.

It does not matter if I say I believe or I know, I am not asserting it as the truth. It is what I believe and what I know is true and it is personal to me.

I'm not playing this game. If you claim to KNOW something, then you are asserting it as a fact.

I don't care if you don't like it. It's not going to change anything. You say you know something, I'll take it as an assertion.

The second area is not very different from the first area.

The first area is your religious faith. The second area is your profession. Is your profession similar to your religious faith?

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

When you claim to be able to make a evaluation of what is in my mind

No, I claim to be able to know that you're being condescending and disrespectful. Once you display it publicly for everyone to see, no one need presume anything, it's clear for all to witness.