Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Tiberius]

An example of a material object that makes a case for Baha'u'llah:
Exhibition of Baha’u’llah’s writings opens at British Museum | BWNS

Mr B's writings are the claim, not the evidence. Try again.

How is that relevant?
if Baha'u'llah was here you STILL would not be able to verify that He got messages from God... All you would have is His word on it. How would you know? Even close members of His family did not believe He was a Messenger of God.

Just like any number of other people who have claimed to be prophets.

Once again, Bahai is just like any other religion.

Of course none of this is relevant anyway because Baha'u'llah is not here, He is in heaven with God and Jesus and all the other Messengers in the Supreme Concourse.

Citation required.

 

[Tiberius]

No, religion is designed to be unconvincing, except to those who have spiritual eyes and ears and can think logically.

Do you have spiritual eyes and the ability to think logically?

 

[Tiberius]

So what? What would that prove about the Baha'i Faith?

That it's wrong, just like all the other faiths.

Please do not misrepresent me.
I said: I don't care what you were speaking of, I speak for myself, and I am not arguing against you.
I did not say I do not care about what you write, I said I can speak for myself.

How is me saying whatever I want arrogant or rude? You say whatever you want to say, did I call it arrogant or rude?

it's rude because you are saying you will ignore whatever I say in order to say whatever you want.

It's like the guy who always tries to turn any conversation to his latest scheme, trying to get others invested. Participate in the discussion that we are actually having. If you want to talk about something else, then go start a new thread for it.

I know you weren't, but I was.
Do you think only what you say matters?
Do you think you can control what other people say?

And why did you think that a discussion about subconscious biases was the place to start talking about something else? Is this your latest tactic, to try to derail the conversation to avoid talking about things you don't want to discuss?

No, that would not work because nobody can know what is in my subconscious, so how can they ever know if or how it has influenced me?

By seeing how it has influenced you!

Let's say you have a subconscious bias against sci-fi, but you love romance. You might criticize a sci-fi movie by saying it has a cheesy love triangle subplot, yet praise a romance movie for having a plot where the heroine has to make a choice between two potential love interests. I'd say to you, "Hey, you criticized the sci-fi movie for this, but then you praise the romance for the same thing. Perhaps you are biased against sci-fi and just used the love triangle plot as an excuse to say it's bad."

How have we been talking about how getting others to look over your work helps to eliminate bias for so long and you still say things like this?

Here's a crazy idea. Why not stop looking at me and my mind and how you think it operates and instead start trying to figure out how your mind operates? All this talk about me is not going to get you any further in your search for the truth about the Baha'i Faith, but if you don't care about that maybe we should close up shop because I am tired of talking about me.

I think making sure that those people who claim to be teachers of the Bahai faith aren't biased is important, since I certainly don't want to get biased information, do I?

 

[Tiberius]

I wish there were no truth to this hyperbolic parody of court proceedings...

The truth is that an officer's word or 'claims' of evidence is often times enough to find a charge unless the defendant has the financial freedom to pay for quality legal representation. Or can provide evidence contrary to the officer's claims.
On paper, a person is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. This would cause your analogy to be inaccurate.
Then you have instances where physical evidence should perhaps hold less gravity than they do. A particular slogan, "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" comes to mind.

I've heard about many people who have fought parking tickets by taking it to court and asking for proof. Behold Joe Lycett dealing with it:

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm simply stating a fact. Many people HAVE told you the same thing that I have.

So, it many people have told me that means it is true?

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so." Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

I'm not playing this game. If you claim to KNOW something, then you are asserting it as a fact.

No, I have told you many times I do not consider what I know to be a fact.

I don't care if you don't like it. It's not going to change anything.
You say you know something, I'll take it as an assertion.

Take it however you want to take it. I do not care how you take it. Why would I care how you take it?

 

[Trailblazer]

Citation required.

“Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 140

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you have spiritual eyes and the ability to think logically?

Yes, because I have recognized Baha'u'llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

it's rude because you are saying you will ignore whatever I say in order to say whatever you want.

I did not ignore what you said. I read it and responded to it and then I said something else. That is not rude.

And why did you think that a discussion about subconscious biases was the place to start talking about something else? Is this your latest tactic, to try to derail the conversation to avoid talking about things you don't want to discuss?

I already addressed the topic of subconscious biases and then I moved on to something else.
There was nothing more to be said by me. Why beat the subject to death?

By seeing how it has influenced you!

I said: "No, that would not work because nobody can know what is in my subconscious, so how can they ever know if or how it has influenced me?"

If nobody can know what is in my subconscious they cannot know how my subconscious has influenced me

How have we been talking about how getting others to look over your work helps to eliminate bias for so long and you still say things like this?

Because I adamantly disagree with you about having others looking over my work in order to eliminate bias.
My disagreement has already been established in numerous posts.

I think making sure that those people who claim to be teachers of the Bahai faith aren't biased is important, since I certainly don't want to get biased information, do I?

If you get your own information then you won't have to get it from the Baha'is who might be biased. That is the solution.

 

[ppp]

No, I claim to be able to know that you're being condescending and disrespectful. Once you display it publicly for everyone to see, no one need presume anything, it's clear for all to witness.

You are just restating what I said in the post to which you are responding, LOL

I think you have got it surrounded, Mr. Compton. If you are looking for some sort of deference then you may as well mosey on to someone else.

Seems as though you ignored both that paragraph, and (conveniently) the next, then just delivered the next line in your script. Since I am not needed for this "conversation" I will bid you adieu.

 

[samtonga43]

If you get your own information then you won't have to get it from the Baha'is who might be biased. That is the solution.

You may be biased?

 

[Sheldon]

No, religion is designed to be unconvincing, except to those who have spiritual eyes and ears and can think logically.

Sorry but your post have been relentlessly irrational since I have been here. You even used a no true Scotsman fallacy in that sentence for goodness sake.

 

[Tiberius]

So, it many people have told me that means it is true?

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so." Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

I'm simply saying that if many people are saying the same thing to you, and each of these people is doing so independently, then it may be time to consider if they have a point.

Honestly, you seem determined to call anything like this argument from popularity.

Fifty different people: "Hey, TrailBlazer, your house is on fire, you better get out!"

TrailBlazer: "I can't pay attention to them, it would be argument from popularity, and I'm not going to do it!"

No, I have told you many times I do not consider what I know to be a fact.

Actions speak louder than words, TB.

 

[Tiberius]

“Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 140

Yes, that's the claim. Where's the evidence for the claim?

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, because I have recognized Baha'u'llah.

People of all faiths say that about their chosen prophet. It's not convincing in the slightest.

 

[Tiberius]

I did not ignore what you said. I read it and responded to it and then I said something else. That is not rude.

You responded to it? Seems to me that you just changed the subject immediately.

I already addressed the topic of subconscious biases and then I moved on to something else.
There was nothing more to be said by me. Why beat the subject to death?

If you have nothing to add to a conversation, then let the conversation go. Don't try and move the topic to something else.

I said: "No, that would not work because nobody can know what is in my subconscious, so how can they ever know if or how it has influenced me?"

If nobody can know what is in my subconscious they cannot know how my subconscious has influenced me

That's just wrong.

If there's no way to detect such influences, then there are no influences.

Because I adamantly disagree with you about having others looking over my work in order to eliminate bias.
My disagreement has already been established in numerous posts.

You can disagree all you want, you're still wrong.

If you get your own information then you won't have to get it from the Baha'is who might be biased. That is the solution.

Very well. Please show me a source which is not in any way connected to the Bahai faith.

 

[night912]

Who has been going on about how I am making claims? Not me. I simply defend myself from false accusations because it is an injustice to accuse people of what they are not doing.

But that does not mean I 'care' what others think. I could not care less.

Hahaha!!!!

The more TB tries to convince that she doesn't care what others think of her, the more convincing she is in demonstrating that she cares about what people thinks about her.

Since TB, just lied with her statement above, it's justified to make a factual statement saying that she is dishonest.

it is an injustice to accuse people of what they are not doing.

Yes it is, that's why those who have said that you are dishonest and provided the evidence for it are victims of injustice every time that you make false accusations about them, saying that they are lying and cannot provide any evidence to support your accusations.

Don't you just love Logic 101?

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm simply saying that if many people are saying the same thing to you, and each of these people is doing so independently, then it may be time to consider if they have a point.

I'm simply saying that if many Baha'is are saying the same thing to you, and each of these Baha'is is doing so independently, then it may be time to consider if they have a point.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, that's the claim. Where's the evidence for the claim?

It is a claim and the evidence has already been provided.

 

[Trailblazer]

People of all faiths say that about their chosen prophet.

And what they say is true. If they recognized their Prophet that means they have spiritual eyes and the ability to think logically.

It's not convincing in the slightest.

Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. That was established a long time ago.

 

[ppp]

Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. That was established a long time ago.

No one is convinced of that, either.