Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I have not made one claim because I have NOTHING to claim.
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Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
It is obvious. You said that God could not hold humans accountable for believing in Him. That is an assumption. Unless you are God, you could not possibly know this.
Logic 101
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Yes, I know.
Which is the reason I am confused as to why you keep thinking that the claims you are providing are evidence.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Several posters have provided lists of your claims on this thread. Sorry.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
That would be you.
Nice projection though. Gotta show those Big Bad Atheists who's boss.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The reply will be that those are not claims. They are floppots.Several posters have provided lists of your claims on this thread. Sorry.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Oh my bad, I thought they were snerflebergs.
I think I'm just about done with this ridiculousness.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I said that God could not hold us accountable for believing in Him if God did not provide evidence of His existence because that would be unjust; so if God is just then God would not hold humans accountable for believing in Him unless God provided evidence of His existence. That is perfectly logical.
I got this idea from what Baha'u'llah wrote, which is also perfectly logical. In the following passage Baha'u'llah explains what the evidence is that establishes His truth (supports His claims). Then He says that everyone has the capacity to recognize this evidence (the signs of God). Then He says that it would be unjust for God to expect us to recognize the signs of God if we did not have the capacity to do so. Then He says that God is not unjust because God never expects more of a person than that person is capable of (never tasks a soul beyond its power).
“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, you and I have snerflebergs because we are atheists. The righteous have floppots.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Oh, of course! What was I thinking?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I make no claims. Atheists try to turn my beliefs into claims.
Atheists are obsessed with idea that believers make claims and they cannot see the difference between a claim and the evidence that supports the claim For example, the Bible contains claims but the Bible is also the evidence that supports the claims. A person has to use some critical thinking skills to figure these things out.
Belief: an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists. belief means - Google Search
Claim: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof. claim means - Google Search
Please show me where I ever stated or asserted that my belief is true. I only ever said that I believe it is true.
That is not a claim, not by any stretch of the imagination.
Aside from that, I have provided evidence over and over and over again, it is just not the evidence you want. Tough tiddlywinks.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
None of those are claims, sorry.Several posters have provided lists of your claims on this thread. Sorry.
I make no claims. I only state my beliefs.
Get a dictionary.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
The Bible can't be both the claim and the evidence. That is circular reasoning. You need evidence from outside the Bible to back up the claim contained in the Bible. Critical thinking shows us this. Otherwise, the claims that wizards are real in the Harry Potter books would be evidence that wizards are real and that Harry Potter is a wizard.
It's not atheists' fault that you don't know the difference between claims and evidence and that you don't think you're making claims when you clearly are.
The Big Bad Atheists aren't responsible for your errors, as much as you want them to be.
Several other posters have provided lengthy lists of your claims. One of them did so just an hour or so ago.
Then I'm sorry, but you apparently do not know the difference between claims and evidence, as you've shown above with your Bible example. Atheists aren't your problem here, you are your problem here.
Tough tiddlywinks, this is ridiculous, at this point.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
They were all claims.
I don't need a dictionary, but apparently you should read the definitions a little more closely.
So you are seeing the issue is the science that is not yet known, but has been stated in Faith that it will be known, that man is.more than the animal.
Personally I see Abdul'baha has supported evolution, however science finds it has unfolded, what he has offered that science is yet to confirm, is that the spirit behind that evolution has a purpose, that the mind of man develops apart from the animal nature.
The understanding of this topic also requires us to consider the topic of the 5 levels spirit that are the animating force or energy behind creation.
https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/8#394598598
Regards Tony
The energy behind creation is the Spirit, have a read of this and consider if it is viable, but yet to be tested by science.
https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/8#394598598
Thank you for a balanced answer.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't know why you are confused.
Baha’u’llah’s Two Bold Claims
All of which leads us back to Baha’u’llah, who made two very bold claims. First, he declared he was God’s messenger for the next one thousand years, having the same divine authority, the same Holy Spirit, the same divine power, as Moses, Christ, Muhammad, and the other founders of the major world religions:
Baha’u’llah made a second and even more challenging claim. He declared he was the promised world messiah foretold in all the prophecies, in all the holy books, of all the religions of the world – the one promised to come on the Day of Judgment, the Day of God, the Time of the End, the End of the World, to establish the kingdom of God on Earth.
https://bahaiteachings.org/what-did-bahaullah-teach?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Below is a list of the primary categories of evidence that support the claims above.
1. His character (His qualities).
That can be determined by reading about Him in books such as the following:
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4
2. His Revelation is what He accomplished (His Mission on earth, i,e., the history of the Baha'i Faith).
That can be determined by reading about His mission in books such as the following:
God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.
3. His Writings which can be found in books that are posted online: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh
4. Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the Bible prophecies Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the Bible prophecies that refer to the return of Christ and the promised Messiah, which is like icing on the cake. That proves to me He was the Messiah and the return of Christ. Those prophecies and how they were fulfilled are delineated in the following book:
William Sears, Thief in the Night
5. Baha'u'llah predicted many events that later came to pass is more icing on the cake. Some of these predictions and how they came to pass are listed and delineated in this book: The Challenge of Baha'u'llah
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Logic is a method of reasoning that adheres to strict principles of validation, you can't have your own logic, that's an oxymoron.
Evidence is a much maligned word, and yes that IS my opinion. Judged from the number of posters here who keep asserting a bare claim is evidence?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Bible contains claims but the Bible is also the evidence that supports the claims. I don't care if it is circular reasoning, it is what it is. God is not going to give you what you want because God is not a short order cook.
God does not care what you want. God gives you what you need and when you reject it you are the only one who misses out. God does not need your belief because God is fully self-sufficient and fully self-sustaining.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You are the one who does not know the difference. I won't be explaining it again, because it is clearly delineated in this post:
#1597 Trailblazer
The Bible contains claims but it is also the evidence that supports the claims.
The Writings of Baha'u'llah contain claims but there is outside evidence that support those claims and that is why the Baha'i Faith has better evidence than Christianity to support the claims of Baha'u'llah.
Any critical thinker could figure this out.