Atheists, where did the universe come from?

[Altfish]

Atheists ought to keep in mind that "God" is just an easy way for people to conceptualize the big "I don't knows" in life so that they can deal with/relate to them. There's no need to see theism as an enemy ideology. The "enemy", if we really want to label them, is the blind authoritarianism, and the willful and deliberate ignorance that infects some expressions of theism. And keep in mind that these also infect every other human ideological activity. Not just religious activity.

But you are playing 'God of the gaps' with that argument.
At one time we didn't know what the moon and stars were.
We didn't know the earth war a sphere.
What lightning was.
How the tides happen (Bill O'Reilly ex of Fox still doesn't)
How life formed on earth.
etc.etc.

The gaps are getting smaller and smaller and eventually God will not be needed

 

[ChristineM]

It must have had a starting point, no?

The starting point is not in question, the cause (if there were a cause) is the question.

There are several hypothesis on what was the cause, all are derived from observations of our universe after the starting point or mathematical probabilities.

These are scientific hypothesis so no pure guesswork along the lines of 'we dont know so god must have done it' is allowed, such a guess belongs firmly in the realm of religion.

The only sure thing about it is, is that at present the cause us unknown.

 

[ChristineM]

No need to rush ahead - I only asked if he is satisfied to reply the scientists are "working on it". After all by all appearances they will never be done working on it - not to mention during the poster's lifetime.

And this is a problem? Why?

 

[HonestJoe]

It must have had a starting point, no?

Atheist describes an individual who doesn’t believe in the existence of any god or gods. It has absolutely no relation to the nature of origins of the universe so there is no rational reason to ask this question specifically of atheists. The actual answer to this question remains exactly the same regardless of the theological beliefs and opinions of the individual answering (though that could lead to them giving a wrong answer ).

Speaking only for myself, I don’t know and don’t really care. These kind of questions can certainly be interesting to investigate but they’re not really important to our lives (or if they are, we’ve no way of definitively determining that). I caught the bus to work this morning and I didn’t need to know where the bus was built.

 

[Polymath257]

It must have had a starting point, no?

Well, no. There doesn't *have* to be a starting point. It could be that time goes infinitely far back into the past and the universe does along with it. It is possible the Big Bang was just a type of phase transition and there was something before it that we could count as being 'the universe'.

Even if there is a 'starting point' (which may or may not be a point), that doesn't mean the universe 'came from' anything. In fact, the notion has internal contradictions that most people seem to ignore.

You see, time is part of the universe. Think about what that means. Whenever there was time, the universe existed. Even if time had a beginning, the universe still existed fro all time.

Furthermore, it is nonsense to talk about 'before time' since the word 'before' itself implies that time exists. So that means that time cannot 'come ut' of anything. And that means the universe cannot either.

The next issue is one of causality. But, again, all causality happens *within* the universe. In fact, causality requires time. So, again, it is meaningless to talk about the 'cause' of the universe. To do so is to use a word (cause) in a context where it is meaningless (outside of the universe).

So, the quick answer is that the question may not even make sense in context. In fact, it probably doesn't. The universe may simply 'just exist', including time, space, matter, and energy.

And, truthfully, I like the symmetry of that position.

 

[Polymath257]

No need to rush ahead - I only asked if he is satisfied to reply the scientists are "working on it". After all by all appearances they will never be done working on it - not to mention during the poster's lifetime.

If we don't know because there is a lack of evidence, it is silly to make a claim one way or the other.

Sometimes we have to learn to be satisfied with not knowing, but still working towards an answer.

 

[stvdv]

"Not knowing is much more interesting than believing an answer which might be wrong."

-- Richard Feynman​

I always thought "believing = not knowing"

 

[Shadow Link]

I always thought "believing = not knowing"

I believe this to be true.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It must have had a starting point, no?

There are a list of other religions that don't believe in god who created the world. I wish I can name them all; but, I can't say all religions do. That's a huge generalization.

I don't believe in creation. Everything always is whatever for it takes to "be" from one state to another. The earth included.

If I believed in god it would be the same. Atheism has nothing to do with it.

 

[youknowme]

It must have had a starting point, no?

Seems a bit egoistical for you, a mere human, to say what the universe "must have".

 

[Shadow Link]

Maybe the beginnings of our galaxy, which gave birth to the idea of a universe, popped up through the fabric of the cosmos. What then, lies beneath the surface?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It must have had a starting point, no?

Can you unpack how you got to that conclusion? Maybe also explain what you mean by "starting point."

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

No need to rush ahead - I only asked if he is satisfied to reply the scientists are "working on it". After all by all appearances they will never be done working on it - not to mention during the poster's lifetime.

And? Thoroughness is important. Would a rushed, ultimately erroneous answer be preferable?

 

[Remté]

The starting point is not in question, the cause (if there were a cause) is the question.

The question of cause comes after the first thing - the starting point.

 

[Remté]

Can you unpack how you got to that conclusion? Maybe also explain what you mean by "starting point."

Physics. Nothing comes out of nothing. Universe cannot come out of nothing.

 

[Willamena]

It must have had a starting point, no?

Why did it have to "come from" something?

 

[Remté]

Atheist describes an individual who doesn’t believe in the existence of any god or gods. It has absolutely no relation to the nature of origins of the universe so there is no rational reason to ask this question specifically of atheists. The actual answer to this question remains exactly the same regardless of the theological beliefs and opinions of the individual answering (though that could lead to them giving a wrong answer ).

The reason I ask atheists is that the religious will largely agree and I know their view.

 

[Polymath257]

The question of cause comes after the first thing - the starting point.

Why do you think there is a 'starting point'? Why only one? Why not infinitely many? Why not an infinite regress?

Think of it like this. What is the 'starting point' of the negative integers: ... -3 -2 -1?

What is the smallest fraction larger than zero?

 

[Polymath257]

The reason I ask atheists is that the religious will largely agree and I know their view.

Well, since you ask atheists, I might turn the question around. How does invoking a God actually explain anything? It doesn't provide a process. It only pushes the question back one step (where did God come from?). And nobody seems to be able to agree what the characteristics are of this God. So it really seems like 'God' is just a placeholder for no explanation at all.

 

[Polymath257]

Physics. Nothing comes out of nothing. Universe cannot come out of nothing.

False,. There are quantum fluctuations all the time where partcles and anti-particles literally 'come out of nothing'.

But, more to the point, the notion of 'coming out' requires time. So it requires the universe already exists. So it makes no sense to ask what the universe 'came out of'.