Athiest...Evolution Question...

[Neophyte]

OK...here is a question I have had for a long time, but no athiest has ever given me a good answer. They all go on to explain how evolution works, but avoid this question. If it takes matter to make matter where did all the matter come from? Something had to create the matter at one point in time. Can someone explain to me where evolution explains where matter first started (even before the big bang)? Again, even if it was a small dot it was still there...where did it come from?

 

[Sunstone]

*sigh* Has no one told you that evolution does not apply to the origins of the universe and matter, or have you just chosen to ignore what they've told you? And if you have chosen to ignore what they've told you, have you done so because you think they are lying to you? Or because you think you must be right? Or for some other reason?

 

[averageJOE]

First, that's not an evolution question. Second, go to the science vs evolution page if you want to learn about evolution.

 

[LuisDantas]

Evolution simply does not deal, even as a speculation, on whatever originated matter.

That is because it is a biological theory, not a theological or cosmological one. It works just as well if one believes that the universe was created by god as if one doesn't.

 

[Skwim]

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What they said




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[freethinker44]

Ditto.

Not getting an answer to your question because you aren't asking the right question.

 

[Valjean]

An excellent question, Neophyte, but, as has been pointed out, not one that has anything to do with evolution -- or atheism, for that matter. You're asking a physics question.

For a treatment of the origins of matter or the universe try googling cosmogony.
It's a very wierd universe we live in, Neo. Matter does not necessarily come from matter and things work in ways that are beyond counter-intuitive.

 

[Tristesse]

OK...here is a question I have had for a long time, but no athiest has ever given me a good answer. They all go on to explain how evolution works, but avoid this question. If it takes matter to make matter where did all the matter come from? Something had to create the matter at one point in time. Can someone explain to me where evolution explains where matter first started (even before the big bang)? Again, even if it was a small dot it was still there...where did it come from?

Well, if you had actually picked up a science book, you would realize that matter can't be created or desroyed.

But your question has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution explains the diversity of life. Not origins. So, your question isn't valid when discussing evolution.

 

[Neophyte]

To those that answered me repectively I appreciate it. To those who for some odd reason felt they must be rude I am confused why you even responded. There was no ill intent to my post. It is an honest question. I have never seen this issue addressed in any evolution book that I have read (yes, for school I have read them), or by any speaker. Everyone else (some highly intellegent) just try to start discussing breakdown of evolution in DNA and such. Anyway, I will have to take the advice from some and look under physics for this...

By the way, I know matter cannot be created or destroyed, yet it had to come from somewhere...

 

[Gjallarhorn]

To those that answered me repectively I appreciate it. To those who for some odd reason felt they must be rude I am confused why you even responded. There was no ill intent to my post. It is an honest question. I have never seen this issue addressed in any evolution book that I have read (yes, for school I have read them), or by any speaker. Everyone else (some highly intellegent) just try to start discussing breakdown of evolution in DNA and such. Anyway, I will have to take the advice from some and look under physics for this...

By the way, I know matter cannot be created or destroyed, yet it had to come from somewhere...

Actually, it's been shown that in a vacuum, matter pops into existence all the time. They are called virtual particles, and only exist for a brief period of time (usually).

 

[David M]

Well, if you had actually picked up a science book, you would realize that matter can't be created or desroyed.

But your question has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution explains the diversity of life. Not origins. So, your question isn't valid when discussing evolution.

Matter can be created and destroyed using the commonly used classical definition of matter. While matter is energy in another form you can certainly create and destroy matter using the classical definition by converting it from or to energy.

As an example when electrons and positrons (which are considered matter) are annihilated they produce photons (which are not considered matter).

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Again, even if it was a small dot it was still there...where did it come from?

We're don't know..

 

[otokage007]

OK...here is a question I have had for a long time, but no athiest has ever given me a good answer. They all go on to explain how evolution works, but avoid this question. If it takes matter to make matter where did all the matter come from? Something had to create the matter at one point in time. Can someone explain to me where evolution explains where matter first started (even before the big bang)? Again, even if it was a small dot it was still there...where did it come from?

Evolution doesn't explain that, you are pointing to the wrong theory. You should head for the origin of universe theories but I don't think science is close to discover it or has even made a potent theory about that.

By the way, you have another simple "theory" discovered a thousand years ago by a jew: God made it.

It is your choose to be content with that theory or to hope future science find the response.

 

[outhouse]

We're don't know..

ya that

its a lot like "we dont know"


seriously, 14-15B years is a long way back to look for absolute answers

 

[tumbleweed41]

OK...here is a question I have had for a long time, but no athiest has ever given me a good answer.

My first response is, why Atheists? Do you assume one must be an Atheist in order to accept the natural process of biological evolution?

If it takes matter to make matter where did all the matter come from?

Matter comes from energy. Energy comes from matter.

Something had to create the matter at one point in time. Can someone explain to me where evolution explains where matter first started (even before the big bang)? Again, even if it was a small dot it was still there...where did it come from?

Biological Evolution has nothing to do with the "Big Bang", or the singularity, or the origins of matter/energy, or even the origin of life itself (abiogenesis).


Now, what you are really asking is not a biology question. It's a physics question.
Nor does it have anything to do with "atheism".

The "Big Bang" is a misnomer.
It was the initial rapid expansion of the singularity.
All potential for space/time and matter/energy was contained within the singularity.
The expansion continues to this day in our rapidly expanding Universe.

Where did the singularity/universe come from?
That is one of the hardest questions of all.
All physical laws of causation are within the singularity/universe.
So it cannot be said that any cause is necessary.
The singularity/universe could have simply began to exist. Much like we see matter "pop" in and out of existence at the quantum level.
There may have been a "First Cause". But, again, it cannot be shown to be necessary.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

OK...here is a question I have had for a long time, but no athiest has ever given me a good answer. They all go on to explain how evolution works, but avoid this question. If it takes matter to make matter where did all the matter come from? Something had to create the matter at one point in time. Can someone explain to me where evolution explains where matter first started (even before the big bang)? Again, even if it was a small dot it was still there...where did it come from?

As explained, evolution doesn't teach the beginning of the universe. But in abiogenesis, we do not know yet.

Ask yourself where did God come from?

 

[kepha31]

The origins of matter is not a science question, it is a philosophical question that is in it's own sphere. As soon as a scientist attempts to answer the question he must put on a philosophical hat and step outside of the sphere of science. Science, especially physical science, is not the rule and guide for all sciences. That is what the scholastics call the fallacy of the uniform method of science. There are three different kinds of sciences:

The difference between them is the degree of abstraction that is involved. The mind might just focus on the physical by experimental observation. This science is called physics or natural science (this is what the modern mind knows as "science"). He can also move toward a higher degree of abstraction dealing with quantity and number which can be distinguished apart from the material things. This is called mathematics. The highest abstraction is when the mind deals with being or reality itself as being. This is called metaphysics.
Science and Religion by Apolonio Latar

Stephen Hawking commits this fallacy when he said:

"..."that the beginning of the universe should be governed by the same laws that held at other times."

Well, he can have this predisposition all he wants, but that is not science; rather, it is the bias he brings to his science, and a mental process which has been much written-about by scientific observers / philosophers of science such as Steven Jay Gould and Thomas Kuhn.
When someone (even a scientist) says that "God caused the Big Bang," I agree that that is not a scientific statement, but by the same token, when Hawking and others want to apply uniformitarianism to the Big Bang, and even "before" it, with no empirical evidence whatever for such a claim, then they are not doing science either, but rather, expressing their arbitrary metaphysical preferences. Hawking's god, then, is uniformitarianism and the potentiality of matter to do anything and everything with no Ultimate Design superintending it. This is yet another axiom held in faith. It can't be proven to hold everywhere and at all times, before and after the Big Bang, etc.
Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: The Atheist's Boundless Faith in Deo-Atomism ("The Atom-as-God")
[/quote]

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

OK...here is a question I have had for a long time, but no athiest has ever given me a good answer. They all go on to explain how evolution works, but avoid this question. If it takes matter to make matter where did all the matter come from? Something had to create the matter at one point in time. Can someone explain to me where evolution explains where matter first started (even before the big bang)? Again, even if it was a small dot it was still there...where did it come from?

No atheist has been able to answer it because evolution does not apply to origins of life or the universe. Also, who put atheists in charge of answering questions regarding evolution? Ask a biologist.

 

[Neophyte]

My first response is, why Atheists? Do you assume one must be an Atheist in order to accept the natural process of biological evolution?

Matter comes from energy. Energy comes from matter.



Biological Evolution has nothing to do with the "Big Bang", or the singularity, or the origins of matter/energy, or even the origin of life itself (abiogenesis).


Now, what you are really asking is not a biology question. It's a physics question.
Nor does it have anything to do with "atheism".

The "Big Bang" is a misnomer.
It was the initial rapid expansion of the singularity.
All potential for space/time and matter/energy was contained within the singularity.
The expansion continues to this day in our rapidly expanding Universe.

Where did the singularity/universe come from?
That is one of the hardest questions of all.
All physical laws of causation are within the singularity/universe.
So it cannot be said that any cause is necessary.
The singularity/universe could have simply began to exist. Much like we see matter "pop" in and out of existence at the quantum level.
There may have been a "First Cause". But, again, it cannot be shown to be necessary.

Thanks for the answer this is the best I have seen or hear so far.

 

[Neophyte]

Everyone keeps asking me why I asked Athiests...it is becuase most Athiest believe in Evolution. That is all...nothing personal or anything.