Athiests Only: What would suffice as proof of God?

[Comprehend]

After reading everybody's responses in Katzpurs thread. I thought this would be a natural follow up.

1. So how about it, what would suffice as proof of God?

2. Would any of the bilbical miracles convince you if you witnessed them?

 

[darkpenguin]

The only thing that would convince me that an almighty exists would happen when I die!
Biblical miracles wouldn't do it for me, they're just smoke and mirrors!
If something/someone ever claimed to be god they/it would get a big fat LOL from me!

 

[Fluffy]

Currently it seems very likely that the idea of God is intrinsically linked with a very low probability of existing. If we removed his status as creator of the universe then we might begin to even the odds a little and I might start to contemplate agnosticism but that attribute seems to be very much a part of what we mean when we say "God".

Other logically contradictory attributes such as omnipotence and omniscience would have to go and those personal affectations such as being able to hear our prayers and omnibenevolence seem more a product of wishful thinking. Again all of these things work to make God's existence very improbable yet by removing them we don't really seem to have a god at all.

So I think scientific explanations for all of these things would be absolutely necessary for starters and then that might make agnosticism worth looking at. Additionally, having removed all of those difficulties I would have far less of a reason to be sceptical if I ever had a personal religious experience. I think that such an experience or even something larger and grander would be necessary in order to then make the jump from agnosticism to theism.

Obviously we would then need further evidence and explanations to move from theism to a particular religion but that is outside of what you asked.

I think maybe a simpler way to put it would be: The point when the explanatory power of "God did it" overcomes all rival theories would be the point that I become a theist.

 

[MaddLlama]

There isn't anything I can think of that I can say "If I saw this, then I would believe in God", including many of the Biblical miracles. Many such miraculous events can be explained, and today even recreated with science and technology. In order for me to even believe in a miracle, all other possible explanations would have to be exhausted. Even near death experiences can be explained by science.

Also, asking an atheist "would you consider believing in God if....." is an incomplete question. There are many many gods out there. Which one are you asking us to believe in? I would be more likely to accept the existance of god from polytheistic societies than I would any of the monotheistic gods.

 

[gnomon]

A few of the biblical miracles would kill us if we witnessed them.

Logically nothing could provide proof of God for it is the very concept of God which lies beyond proof. Note that just because some unexplained phenomena occurs it doesn't prove or even provide the possibility for any human's idea of God. Or rather, for any so called supernatural event I could posit that it was the Invisibly Pink Unicorn that was the cause of the miracle.

This is why as an atheist I say the entire concept of God is irrelevant.

 

[Fluffy]

I'd just like to add a bit more to this.

It might seem as though atheists have an unreasonably high standard for the evidence required to justify a belief in god. However I really don't think that this is the case and that god is far from a last resort option.

However, it seems that most of the evidence that is produced to support theism only appears to point to god when one already has a belief in god. If god were a concept undreamt of then clearly we would not immediatly jump to him if, for example, we witnessed a miracle.

 

[purplehaze]

After reading everybody's responses in Katzpurs thread. I thought this would be a natural follow up.

1. So how about it, what would suffice as proof of God?

2. Would any of the bilbical miracles convince you if you witnessed them?

1. How about if God would just simply show up.

2. Miracles such as talking snakes, dead bodies coming back to life, a burning bush that never burns up, virgins giving birth? amazing how so many put their blind trust in such things that allegedly, literally happened thousands of years in the past isn't it?

Of course it's just a belief all those miralces happened. There is absolutely no evidence or proof any of it actually did happen at all. In order for such things to happen one must suspend all manner of rational thinking altogether. Because any person with any level or capability of thinking at all can see that such things are totally impossible. Unless of course you have some strange definition of the term: Miracle?

It is a violation of natural laws. Which basically means, that, snakes don't talk, virgins do not give birth and corpses do not come back to life.

They only happen in ancient books based on fables and fiction.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

1. How about if God would just simply show up.

2. Miracles such as talking snakes, dead bodies coming back to life, a burning bush that never burns up, virgins giving birth? amazing how so many put their blind trust in such things that allegedly, literally happened thousands of years in the past isn't it?

Of course it's just a belief all those miralces happened. There is absolutely no evidence or proof any of it actually did happen at all. In order for such things to happen one must suspend all manner of rational thinking altogether. Because any person with any level or capability of thinking at all can see that such things are totally impossible. Unless of course you have some strange definition of the term: Miracle?

It is a violation of natural laws. Which basically means, that, snakes don't talk, virgins do not give birth and corpses do not come back to life.

They only happen in ancient books based on fables and fiction.

I agree...

shucks....wasn't it Aaron that threw his staff down and it became a snake and then pharaoh's magician did the same thing????

Exodus 7:10-12

 

[purplehaze]

I agree...

shucks....wasn't it Aaron that threw his staff down and it became a snake and then pharaoh's magician did the same thing????

Exodus 7:10-12

Right. All based on fiction too.

DG07: just curious about this forum. I'm new here and I'm a little confused about which forums are off limits on debating. Do fill me in on please.

 

[McBell]

1. How about if God would just simply show up.

IF God was to show up, how many Christians would deny Him simply because He is not what they think He should be?

 

[Kavi]

IF God was to show up, how many Christians would deny Him simply because He is not what they think He should be?

True, like if he were to come in a form that we would not recognize. Like a human form, if possible? If that were the case, we would probably wake up in the morning and see it on the news or something.
"Man claims to be God!"
Would anyone believe it if it really was God?

Then again, if God were to come, how would he do it?

 

[Katzpur]

DG07: just curious about this forum. I'm new here and I'm a little confused about which forums are off limits on debating. Do fill me in on please.

FYI, if you go to the Religious Education Index, you will see a list of all the forums and sub-forums on the site. Each one will be designated as either "debate" or "discussion."

 

[Sunstone]

1. So how about it, what would suffice as proof of God?

The same as would suffice as overwhelming evidence that the computer I'm typing on exists.

2. Would any of the bilbical miracles convince you if you witnessed them?

Miracles are a tacky way of proving you exist.

 

[Katzpur]

The same as would suffice as overwhelming evidence that the computer I'm typing on exists.

You can see and touch your computer. Surely you're not telling me that seeing and touching God would convince you, Phil. What would God appearing to you accomplish?

Miracles are a tacky way of proving you exist.

I tend to agree, but if you were to exclude miracles as evidence, what evidence would you accept as valid? If God appeared to you as a man, and you didn't want to see a miracle, how could He convince you that He was who He claimed to be?

 

[Sunstone]

You can see and touch your computer. Surely you're not telling me that seeing and touching God would convince you, Phil. What would God appearing to you accomplish?

What other kind of evidence is there for something, ultimately, other than sensory evidence?

 

[Katzpur]

What other kind of evidence is there for something, ultimately, other than sensory evidence?

None that I can think of. Most Christians, as you know, believe that God has no form, but is instead some kind of a divine, but invisible essence. If He did exist as an invisible essence, there would be no evidence to support His existence (unless He performed a miracle, which you have said would be "tacky"). Of course, I see God as having a human-like form, so I believe that if He were to appear to you, you would be able to both see and touch Him. If that were the case, what would it take to convince you that He wasn't a mere man?

 

[Nanda]

I don't know what would convince me. I suppose I'd know it when I saw it. So far, not an issue.

 

[UnTheist]

God actually showing Himself to me would be a start. Faith is not required, and is causing alot of people to turn away from Him.

 

[Katzpur]

God actually showing Himself to me would be a start. Faith is not required, and is causing alot of people to turn away from Him.

But how would you know that it was God you were seeing? I keep asking that and nobody's answering!

 

[UnTheist]

But how would you know that it was God you were seeing? I keep asking that and nobody's answering!

If he said "Hello, My name is GOD," that would probably work. There are many experiences we have that we can't explain, and we just call it something that makes sense to us. I guess I wouldn't know for sure then