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Attachment to the Impermanent

duvduv

Member
Is there a great deal of difference between the thought of Buddha concerning attachment to the impermanence of the physical word, emotions, thoughts, and how Hinduism or other traditions view this problem? What would really make Buddha's teachings different from those of Hinduism in this regard aside from Buddha's original rejection of mountains of rituals (which perhaps Buddhism itself developed over time in some forms).

It occurred to me that the pronouncements of Ecclesiastes in the name of King Solomon address this as well: Vanity, Vanity, all is Vanity. Attachment only to the permanent and eternal which is not of this world is the only path to happiness. This is reflected in Kabbalistic teachings I am sure and cannot be too different than those of the Buddha and Hinduism.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Is there a great deal of difference between the thought of Buddha concerning attachment to the impermanence of the physical word, emotions, thoughts, and how Hinduism or other traditions view this problem?

Not really.

In a nutshell, impermanence is a concept that has meaning and validity when correctly employed.

Hinduist schools of thought often do not make any particular use of impermanence and similar concepts. That is not a problem at all; they will have their own concepts and use them in what will be, hopefully, sound Dharmic doctrine. Just like Buddhist teachers have much the same goal and duty with our own concepts.

The actual disagreements are much more a function of specific takes from various teachers and Gurus than from the specific core concepts used by each doctrine.

And that should not be a big surprise. After all, both doctrines are calibrated by the world as it is. Their validity is not an abstract matter, nor could it.


What would really make Buddha's teachings different from those of Hinduism in this regard aside from Buddha's original rejection of mountains of rituals (which perhaps Buddhism itself developed over time in some forms).

The main contrasts between Buddhism and the average mainstream Hindu Dharma include:

- The use of the concept of Anatta, which directly contrasts and arguably denies with the Hindu Atman.

- A take on the Devas that is somewhat unusual by Hindu sensibilities. It also makes them fairly peripheral from a doctrinary standpoint as well, although that depends a lot on specific adherents and teachers.

- Naturally, the scriptures of Buddhism such as they are do not include the Vedas and Upanishads, at least canonically.

- Buddhist Rebirth is a lot different from Hindu teachings of Reincarnation.

- There are also some other core concepts related to Anatta and impermanence, such as Interdependent Origination and Vacuity.

- And of course, we have our own core doctrines, such as the Four Noble Truths, which are not particularly Hindu in form or use.


It occurred to me that the pronouncements of Ecclesiastes in the name of King Solomon address this as well: Vanity, Vanity, all is Vanity. Attachment only to the permanent and eternal which is not of this world is the only path to happiness. This is reflected in Kabbalistic teachings I am sure and cannot be too different than those of the Buddha and Hinduism.

You should expect well-cared religion to attempt to remain useful and relevant, indeed.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
I don't really understand your purpose here ?
One thing is the observance of the belief in Nirvana.
The un-ending infinity of the afterlife, and the re-emergence of a new being.
I'm pretty ignorant of your goal here, but I'm quite interested.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Is there a great deal of difference between the thought of Buddha concerning attachment to the impermanence of the physical word, emotions, thoughts, and how Hinduism or other traditions view this problem? What would really make Buddha's teachings different from those of Hinduism in this regard aside from Buddha's original rejection of mountains of rituals (which perhaps Buddhism itself developed over time in some forms).

It occurred to me that the pronouncements of Ecclesiastes in the name of King Solomon address this as well: Vanity, Vanity, all is Vanity. Attachment only to the permanent and eternal which is not of this world is the only path to happiness. This is reflected in Kabbalistic teachings I am sure and cannot be too different than those of the Buddha and Hinduism.

Biggest difference is god and reincarnation. Outside of that, I wouldnt be surprised if Tibetan Buddhism and some mahayana sects are similar in thought with hinduism.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Word has it that Advaita Hinduism is fairly similar to the average Buddhist school of thought as well.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Attachment only to the permanent and eternal which is not of this world is the only path to happiness.
I don't pretend to speak for either Hindu or Buddhist thought but am of the impression that attachment, of any kind, is not healthy, though the path you mentioned might bring solace for a time, it too, eventually needs to be set aside.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Is there a great deal of difference between the thought of Buddha concerning attachment to the impermanence of the physical word, emotions, thoughts, and how Hinduism or other traditions view this problem? What would really make Buddha's teachings different from those of Hinduism in this regard aside from Buddha's original rejection of mountains of rituals (which perhaps Buddhism itself developed over time in some forms).

It occurred to me that the pronouncements of Ecclesiastes in the name of King Solomon address this as well: Vanity, Vanity, all is Vanity. Attachment only to the permanent and eternal which is not of this world is the only path to happiness. This is reflected in Kabbalistic teachings I am sure and cannot be too different than those of the Buddha and Hinduism.
It depends on how long you're going to remember all that.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It occurred to me that the pronouncements of Ecclesiastes in the name of King Solomon address this as well: Vanity, Vanity, all is Vanity. Attachment only to the permanent and eternal which is not of this world is the only path to happiness. This is reflected in Kabbalistic teachings I am sure and cannot be too different than those of the Buddha and Hinduism.
If I may interject my view, I think all the great religions came from the same God, and as such the spiritual truths are the same in all religions, they are eternal. Among these truths is the impermanence of this material world. Such passages can be found in my religion, the Baha’i Faith...

“The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 328-329

“Wert thou to consider this world, and realize how fleeting are the things that pertain unto it, thou wouldst choose to tread no path except the path of service to the Cause of thy Lord. None would have the power to deter thee from celebrating His praise, though all men should arise to oppose thee.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 214

“When the channel of the human soul is cleansed of all worldly and impeding attachments, it will unfailingly perceive the breath of the Beloved across immeasurable distances, and will, led by its perfume, attain and enter the City of Certitude.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 268

My religion teaches that whatever deters us from loving God is nothing but the world, and that we should flee it. I have discovered that there is no real happiness to be found in the things of the world. I cannot help but notice as l gaze around me that most people are attached to what the material world has to offer. They derive their happiness from it, but I find it rather sad. How can so many people ascribe to religions and live completely opposite to what they teach?
 

duvduv

Member
Biggest difference is god and reincarnation. Outside of that, I wouldnt be surprised if Tibetan Buddhism and some mahayana sects are similar in thought with hinduism.
Usually it is said that Buddhism does not relate to any concept of God, but how can this be if it accepts the idea of an ultimate reality that is the source of all creation and being (Brahman)??
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Usually it is said that Buddhism does not relate to any concept of God, but how can this be if it accepts the idea of an ultimate reality that is the source of all creation and being (Brahman)??

Because The Buddha denied tha Brahman have anything to do with ending rebirth-which is the point. He didnt say Brahman doesnt exist; he was a hindu. He just realized that to end rebirth, god is not part of the equation.

I dont know what ultimate reality is. The Buddha mentioned he wasnt concerned about questions of origin and philosophy. He went straight to the point: end suffering.

As for different schools and lineages, they all have their views. Some simular in metaphysics like Hindu others quite atheist. I guess it depends on who you ask and how they interpet final rebirth.
 

duvduv

Member
Because The Buddha denied tha Brahman have anything to do with ending rebirth-which is the point. He didnt say Brahman doesnt exist; he was a hindu. He just realized that to end rebirth, god is not part of the equation.

I dont know what ultimate reality is. The Buddha mentioned he wasnt concerned about questions of origin and philosophy. He went straight to the point: end suffering.

As for different schools and lineages, they all have their views. Some simular in metaphysics like Hindu others quite atheist. I guess it depends on who you ask and how they interpet final rebirth.
If I understand correctly you are saying that Buddha and his immediate followers were not establishing a new religion, but were just part of Hinduism, which should still be the case today but isn't? Presumably Buddha himself related to God beyond his teachings of Buddhism, so that claiming that Buddhism is non-theistic is really incorrect and confuses everything?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hmm
If I understand correctly you are saying that Buddha and his immediate followers were not establishing a new religion, but were just part of Hinduism, which should still be the case today but isn't

Actually no. Siddhartha Guatama used to be Hindu. He did believe in Brahman etc. He found out that following rituals in the Hindu faith would not help understand and relieave suffering and end rebirth; so, after he was enlightened as The Buddha, he taught his disciples cease of suffering is understanding it and following set practices to end rebirth.

The Dharma/teachings werent created. Suffering and the teachingso f The Dharma existed way before he was enlightened. Rather he discovered the truth and knowledge of suffering, cause, end, and how to end it.

Hinduism focuses on god.
Buddhism focuses on mind.

Presumably Buddha himself related to God beyond his teachings of Buddhism, so that claiming that Buddhism is non-theistic is really incorrect and confuses everything?

No. The Buddha was a theist; he was hindu. He said Brahman had nothing to do with ending suffering and he didnt like the escertic practices in his day. So, he dropped it and found another way out.

Whether its theistic (not abrahamic view) depends on the lineage. Many lineages believe in the devas and other gods. In The Lotus Sutra Dharma he says that devas and gods are waiting for enligthenment too. Tibetan lineages I discovered have gods in their school. Think the only ones I know who do not are Nichiren Shoshu and SGI most definitely not.

There are gods in buddhism (its polytheist) but the gods are not points to enligtenment. Training our mind and deeds do.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Ahhh...the end of everything still faces the unguarded noncognizance of traveling into the neverness of uncertainty. A Nirvana of it's own, and what will be there, sans rebirth as another.
To be aware of one's own finality would be a reward in itself, ahhh, to be only aware ?
 

duvduv

Member
Is there some inherent reason why the original teachings of Buddhism could not be associated directly or in association with theism, since all we hear in western discussion is that "Buddhism doesn't believe in God"?? In other words the practice of attaining liberation/enlightenment under Buddhist teachings could simply mean attaining merging with God in "emptiness"??
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Is there some inherent reason why the original teachings of Buddhism could not be associated directly or in association with theism, since all we hear in western discussion is that "Buddhism doesn't believe in God"?? In other words the practice of attaining liberation/enlightenment under Buddhist teachings could simply mean attaining merging with God in "emptiness"??

Many Buddhist linages believe gods or, better term is deities: they dont worship gods like abrahamics but beings do exist. The Devas and deities in Buddhism looks like a good read. Ima read it myself later. Accesstoinsight is great in describing Buddhism and the teachings of The Dhamma.

The Buddha never took a stance on the origin and nature of the universe to which abrahamic view god is connected. He said:

"So, Malunkyaputta, remember what is undeclared by me as undeclared, and what is declared by me as declared." Cula-Mal.. Suta

The origins of god/the cosmos is not important to enlightement and understanding emptiness and attachment.

"Buddhist teachings could simply mean attaining merging with God in "emptiness"

Thi sounds like hinduism. I dont know about the emptiness part though.

Liberation: End of rebirth
Enlightenment: Full awareness and understanding of rebirth

One needs to be enlightened to understand suffering and rebirth. When a person is no longer attached, they are liberated from suffering and no longer live. They die.
 

duvduv

Member
How does the fact of impermanence or "emptiness" according to the Buddha relate to the actual NON-IMPERMANENCE of the physical world with its laws of physics, chemistry etc. If a person jumps off a building he will kill himself very permanently. If he doesn't eat he will very permanently die of hunger. If he injects strychnine he will be very permanently poisoned, regardless of the emptiness or impermanence of existence. So how does existence end up with such permanent laws of cause and effect (especially with no mention of a supreme God overseeing everything) in a reality of non-being and (per Vedic philosophy) non-dualism???
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Is there some inherent reason why the original teachings of Buddhism could not be associated directly or in association with theism, since all we hear in western discussion is that "Buddhism doesn't believe in God"?? In other words the practice of attaining liberation/enlightenment under Buddhist teachings could simply mean attaining merging with God in "emptiness"??
I don't see how Buddhism could be effective with all that baggage.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
The emptiness of spirit dwells only in the nothingness of the Cosmos' control.
Imagined `gods` stay outside of those dimensions, in the mirrors of reality.
 
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