Ayesha's age at marriage

[tuga]

Salamu Alyckum all
to explain the reality of Ayesha's age marriage we must read the story of this marriage.

The Marrige of Lady Aisha and Sawda
After three years of this constant struggle when Mohamed was fifty-three years old, a relative called Khawla went to him and pointed out that his house was sadly neglected and that his daughters needed a mother to look after them. Mohamed was aware of that, but he had never thought of re-marriage.

“But who can take the place of Khadija?” he asked in wonder.

“Aisha, the daughter of Abu Bakr,” she answered.

Abu Bakr was Mohamed's dearest friend, and more than once he had risked his life to save Mohamed's, and more than once he had risked his livelihood and possessions for the sake of Islam. He had dedicated his whole life to the service of Allah and his Messenger. Honor was Abu Bakr's due, Mohamed felt, and to bring him and his tribe closer to him was a service to Islam, but Abu Bakr's daughter was a pretty little girl of seven years old, hardly the person to take care of his daughters.

“But she is very young,” he said.

Khawla had a solution for everything. He was to marry at the same time Sawda, the widow of Al-Sakran ibn Amr. She had been the first woman to emigrate to Abyssinia for the sake of her religion and had endured much for the sake of Islam and was then living with her aged father, her husband having died. She was middle-aged, rather plump, with a jolly, kindly disposition, just the right person to take care of growing little girls. So Mohamed gave permission to Khawla to speak to Abu Bakr and to Sawda on the subject.

Both parties accepted, feeling that it was a great honor. Sawda went to live in Mohamed's house and immediately took over the care of his daughters and household, while Aisha became betrothed to him and remained in her father's house playing with her dolls.

Some years later after Mohamed and Abu Bakr emigrated to Medina, Aisha became Mohamed's bride at the request of Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr was a man with broad vision who traveled and studied much, and who had a wide knowledge of the wisdom of the Arabs and was the authority on Arab genealogy. He was very fond of poetry and taught Aisha and her older sister, Asma the best of Arab verse and Arab proverbs.

When she was removed to Mohamed's house, he found in her an apt and avid pupil, quick to learn, with a quick and accurate memory. Very intelligent, she soon became a keen scholar and would sit and argue with others. Whenever she beat someone else in argument, Mohamed used to smile and say,

“She is the daughter of Abu Bakr.”

She became so learned that one of her contemporaries used to say that if the knowledge of Aisha were placed on one side of the scale and that of all other women in the other, Aisha's would win. She used to sit with the women and teach them about the precepts and rituals of Islam which the Messenger had taught her, and long after the Messenger and Abu Bakr passed away she was a source of reference on the practice of Islam and the words of the Messenger as applied to both men and women. It is an example of Divine wisdom that she went to Mohamed's house so young, absorbed so much, and was able to transmit it to another generation intact.

Besides being a scholar, Aisha was a very graceful young woman with comely features. A friendship grew up between her and Sawda when she was removed to Mohamed's house as a little girl and Sawda took care of her with the rest of the household. When Aisha grew up, Sawda passed up her share of the Prophet's time in favor of Aisha and was content to manage his household and be

“the Mother of the Believers.”

Being the daughter of Abu Bakr, who on one occasion had given away all his capital for the sake of religion, and the wife of Mohamed, who kept nothing for himself, she was very generous. One day the Messenger had an offering killed. According to Islam, the giver of an offering is entitled to retain a part, one third, and the rest is to go to the poor. It was, Aisha's job to distribute the meat to the poor. And when she had finished giving to all the poor, she found that she had left nothing for the Messenger's large household except the neck of the animal. Distressed, she went to Mohamed and said,

“I have been able to save nothing but this.”

“That is the only part you have not saved,” said the Messenger smiling. For what goes to Allah is saved indeed.

Aisha had charming ways and the Messenger grew very fond of the young woman who was brought to his house as a little girl and grew up under his care.

One day an elderly lady came to visit them and Mohamed was most attentive to her. After she left, Aisha asked who she was and Mohamed said,

“She used to visit us in the days of Khadija.”

Anything that reminded him of his beloved Khadija was dear to him.

On another occasion he heard the voice of Hala, Khadija's sister, in the courtyard outside and hurried out to meet her. Annoyed, Aisha later said to him.

“Khadija was an old woman, and Allah has given you better than her.”

“By Allah,” he said, “my Lord has not given me better than her. She trusted me when people scorned, she believed in me when people denied, she comforted me with her money when people deprived me, and Allah has given me issue from her to the exception of other women.”

Aisha says, “I learnt to hold my tongue where Khadija was concerned.”

Mohamed was most kind to all people, and gallant as well as kind to women, but he had loyalties that he allowed no one to approach. He never forgot someone who did him a good turn, and Khadija's memory he held very dear.

Thanks

 

[alpac]

Salamu Alyckum all
to explain the reality of Ayesha's age marriage we must read the story of this marriage.

The Marrige of Lady Aisha and Sawda
After three years of this constant struggle when Mohamed was fifty-three years old, a relative called Khawla went to him and pointed out that his house was sadly neglected and that his daughters needed a mother to look after them. Mohamed was aware of that, but he had never thought of re-marriage.

“But who can take the place of Khadija?” he asked in wonder.

“Aisha, the daughter of Abu Bakr,” she answered.

Abu Bakr was Mohamed's dearest friend, and more than once he had risked his life to save Mohamed's, and more than once he had risked his livelihood and possessions for the sake of Islam. He had dedicated his whole life to the service of Allah and his Messenger. Honor was Abu Bakr's due, Mohamed felt, and to bring him and his tribe closer to him was a service to Islam, but Abu Bakr's daughter was a pretty little girl of seven years old, hardly the person to take care of his daughters.

“But she is very young,” he said.

Khawla had a solution for everything. He was to marry at the same time Sawda, the widow of Al-Sakran ibn Amr. She had been the first woman to emigrate to Abyssinia for the sake of her religion and had endured much for the sake of Islam and was then living with her aged father, her husband having died. She was middle-aged, rather plump, with a jolly, kindly disposition, just the right person to take care of growing little girls. So Mohamed gave permission to Khawla to speak to Abu Bakr and to Sawda on the subject.

Both parties accepted, feeling that it was a great honor. Sawda went to live in Mohamed's house and immediately took over the care of his daughters and household, while Aisha became betrothed to him and remained in her father's house playing with her dolls.

Some years later after Mohamed and Abu Bakr emigrated to Medina, Aisha became Mohamed's bride at the request of Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr was a man with broad vision who traveled and studied much, and who had a wide knowledge of the wisdom of the Arabs and was the authority on Arab genealogy. He was very fond of poetry and taught Aisha and her older sister, Asma the best of Arab verse and Arab proverbs.

When she was removed to Mohamed's house, he found in her an apt and avid pupil, quick to learn, with a quick and accurate memory. Very intelligent, she soon became a keen scholar and would sit and argue with others. Whenever she beat someone else in argument, Mohamed used to smile and say,

“She is the daughter of Abu Bakr.”

She became so learned that one of her contemporaries used to say that if the knowledge of Aisha were placed on one side of the scale and that of all other women in the other, Aisha's would win. She used to sit with the women and teach them about the precepts and rituals of Islam which the Messenger had taught her, and long after the Messenger and Abu Bakr passed away she was a source of reference on the practice of Islam and the words of the Messenger as applied to both men and women. It is an example of Divine wisdom that she went to Mohamed's house so young, absorbed so much, and was able to transmit it to another generation intact.

Besides being a scholar, Aisha was a very graceful young woman with comely features. A friendship grew up between her and Sawda when she was removed to Mohamed's house as a little girl and Sawda took care of her with the rest of the household. When Aisha grew up, Sawda passed up her share of the Prophet's time in favor of Aisha and was content to manage his household and be

“the Mother of the Believers.”

Being the daughter of Abu Bakr, who on one occasion had given away all his capital for the sake of religion, and the wife of Mohamed, who kept nothing for himself, she was very generous. One day the Messenger had an offering killed. According to Islam, the giver of an offering is entitled to retain a part, one third, and the rest is to go to the poor. It was, Aisha's job to distribute the meat to the poor. And when she had finished giving to all the poor, she found that she had left nothing for the Messenger's large household except the neck of the animal. Distressed, she went to Mohamed and said,

“I have been able to save nothing but this.”

“That is the only part you have not saved,” said the Messenger smiling. For what goes to Allah is saved indeed.

Aisha had charming ways and the Messenger grew very fond of the young woman who was brought to his house as a little girl and grew up under his care.

One day an elderly lady came to visit them and Mohamed was most attentive to her. After she left, Aisha asked who she was and Mohamed said,

“She used to visit us in the days of Khadija.”

Anything that reminded him of his beloved Khadija was dear to him.

On another occasion he heard the voice of Hala, Khadija's sister, in the courtyard outside and hurried out to meet her. Annoyed, Aisha later said to him.

“Khadija was an old woman, and Allah has given you better than her.”

“By Allah,” he said, “my Lord has not given me better than her. She trusted me when people scorned, she believed in me when people denied, she comforted me with her money when people deprived me, and Allah has given me issue from her to the exception of other women.”

Aisha says, “I learnt to hold my tongue where Khadija was concerned.”

Mohamed was most kind to all people, and gallant as well as kind to women, but he had loyalties that he allowed no one to approach. He never forgot someone who did him a good turn, and Khadija's memory he held very dear.

Thanks

Very good quote mashallah!

 

[Littlefoot]

Please keep in mind that disagreeing with your interpretation of something is NOT a lie. Even being wrong or misinformed about something is not a lie.

 

[Cordoba]

A full answer to this topic by the way is available on this page, in an article by Abdul Rahman Robert Squires:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

After the prophet peace be upon him passed away, Aishah, may Allah be pleased with her, spent the remaining 50 years of her life teaching Muslims, men and women, hadith and fiqh.

That was one of the wisdoms for her early marriage, to spend all these years in the transmission of Islamic knowledge to successive generations of Muslims and preserve Islam intact.

As a narrator of several thousand hadiths, Lady Aishah made an important contribution in this field.

 

[Montalban]

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_151_200/ayesha_age_the_myth_of__a_prover.htm

I have found that in debating with christians/non muslims, they tend to say Muhammad(pbuh) was a child molester; like many of their arguments, we know this to be a lie. This is a link to a good site that you can give christians, or anyone who lies about the Prophet(pbuh). It exposes the false hadith that say she was a child when they were married.

wa salaam,

Aramaya

Your web-site: Oddly it is presenting an insult to Muslims everywhere who revere the Hadith.

The Hadith that are the sources for the age of Aisha are known as the 'strong' hadith in that their reputation is on solid ground. There is a whole 'science' of hadith that attest to the accuracy of Hadith Bukhari.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
Bukhari vol. 7, #88:
"Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:
"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."
FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 2, #3309
Aisha reported: Allah's Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine".
FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD
(Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam.)
From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

All of these attest that Aisha was nine years old at the time of 'consumation' of the marriage.

Not only are these 'primary' sources, but there are 'secondary' sources too, that equally attest to her very young age
FROM THE HISTORY OF TABARI
(Tabari wrote the most authentic Islamic history. It covers 39 volumes. Tabari was one of the greatest Islamic scholars and the greatest Islamic Historian.)
From Tabari, volume 7, page 7:
"....my marriage (to Muhammad) was consummated when I was nine....."
From Tabari, volume 9, page 131
"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"......(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.
(I also want to provide evidence from the best Islamic Ency. available in English, and other Islamic writers. They also acknowledge Aisha's age being 9.)
FROM THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF ISLAM, under "Aisha". (pub. by E.J. Brill).
"Some time after the death of Khadija, Khawla suggested to Muhammad that he should marry either Aisha, the 6 year old daughter of his chief follower, or Sawda Zama, a widow of about 30, who had gone as a Muslim to Abyssinia and whose husband had died there. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both. It had already been agreed that Aisha should marry Djubayr Mutim, whose father, though still pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. By common consent, however, this agreement was set aside, and Muhammad was betrothed to Aisha.... The marriage was not consummated until some months after the Hidjra, (in April 623, 624). Aisha went to live in an apartment in Muhammad's house, later the mosque of Median. She cannot have been more than ten years old at the time and took her toys to her new home."
From the Muslim book "WOMEN IN ISLAM" by Said Abjullah Seif-Al-Hatimy, published by Islamic Publications in Lahore Pakistan:
"...(Aisha) She was the youngest of his wives. It is said that she was nine years of age when he married her."


The problem then is that there is some trouble with the secondary sources HOWEVER in Islam, if a secondary source conflicts with the Hadith, the Hadith are to be taken as 'gospel'. And in this case both Hadith and secondary sources agree on her young age.

 

[Montalban]

The problem is really with the title of this thread which is to do with her age at the time of marriage, not when the 'union' was consumated. In that, there is some disagreement; that she married aged 6, or 9, or another age. However there is no disagreement on when the marriage was consumated.

Other secondary sources that agree...
"The Prophet consummated his marriage with A'isha when she was nine and this was considered the age of consent for a long time."
http://www.hraic.org/women_in_islam.html
also at
http://www.amcoptic.com/read_for_u/women_and_islam.htm

“3 – ‘Aa’ishah bint Abi Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with her)

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married her in Shawwaal of the tenth year of the Prophethood. Ibn Sa’d, 8/58-59. She herself said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3894; Muslim, 1422. Al-Bukhaari (5077) also narrated that the Messenger of Allaah (S) (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry any virgin apart form her.”
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=47072&dgn=4

Muhammad married her when she was six (or engaged to her), and actually took her into his household (and consummated the marriage) when she was nine. However he had told of him 'dreaming' about her when she was 4 or 5!
Hadith Bukhari 5:58:235.
"...[T]he Prophet (Muhammad) said to her (Aisha), 'You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and someone said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done.'"
Remember, that she was only a child. He is dreaming about a little girl who was six or under (because she was six at the age of betrothal).

This is why Muslim expert sites give such as following as advice...

"According to the Shari'ah, if a girl is a minor (did not attain puberty), she may be given in marriage by her father. When she attains puberty, she has the right to maintain the marriage or discontinue the marriage. There is no age limit to be intimate with one's wife even if she is a minor.
It is important for you, in your situation, to consider the age difference reservation expressed by your wife.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai"
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=6737

The Appropriate Age for Marriage
Question: What is the appropriate age for men and women to marry? Some of the young ladies of today do not accept to be married to men older than them and also some of the men do not get married from anyone older than them either. We hope for a response, may Allah reward you.
Response: I advise the young ladies not to refuse a man because of his older age. Even if he be ten, twenty or thirty years older, this is not a valid excuse. The Prophet (peace be upon him) married Aisha when he was fifty-three years old and she was nine years old. Older age is not harmful.
http://www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html

"It is the duty of parents to arrange the marriage of their children when they come of age. The Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam has stressed that it should be taken seriously and with a full sense of responsibility. Abu Saeed Khudri and Abdullah ibn Abbas (R.A.) narrated that the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam said "Whoever is blessed by the Creator with children should give them good names, a good training, teach them good manners, and arrange for their marriage when they attain the age of puberty. If he does not pay due heed to it and fails to get them married, on reaching marriageable age (due to negligence) and they take to ways that are forbidden, the father will be held responsible for it."
http://www.islam.tc/social_conduct/social_conduct_of_a_muslim.html

See also
http://www.islamicvoice.com/august.98/marriage.htm#EAR

 

[Montalban]

Whatever it was, I'm not in a position to judge the customs and practices at that time.

As far as attested, nobody was hurt or offende or whatever at that time. I find it more difficult to defend the proposed slaughterings and promiscuities in the Old Testament.

This is an anti-Islamic thing to say. Muhammed is (according to Muslims) not a man of a particular age, but an example for all time.

Below is a proper Islamic regard for Muhammed, and for the texts which are the sources used to show that Aisha was only 9 years old when the marriage was consumated (quoted in my posts above)

A- Muslims regard Muhammad the best example of man.
Muslims believe that Muhammad is the ideal man - an example for all time (hence that is why Allah chose him - because he was a cut above the rest)
"The Lord of the universe, The Most Merciful and Compassionate sent about 124,000 prophets and messengers to every nook and corner of this earth to guide humanity towards understanding the purpose of its creation and thereby surrender to His Divine Laws and achieve its final destiny of Eternal Peace in His Paradise. The last messenger of God who brought His last revelation the Holy Quraan to humanity is Muhammad bin 'Abdullah, born in Mekkah, approximately 550 years after Jesus, son of Mary, peace and blessings of God be on them both. This is the account of this last Messenger of God, the most remarkable man, that human history has known."
http://www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org/truth/must.htm
"The Prophet accomplished all this through the strength of his character and personal example;"
http://www.missionislam.com/youth/muhammad.htm

B-The Haddiths though not perfect, are second to the Koran for sources of instruction for Muslims
"The Holy Qur'an :The most sacred book and the primary source of legislation.
Hadith : The second source of legislation."
http://www.al-islam.com/
"The Sunnah is the example set by Muhammad in all aspects of life, from spiritual to mundane. The Hadith are the stories and narrations of the Sunnah as told by various individuals who were close to Muhammad. The majority of Muslims regard the Hadith as equal in importance with the Quran"
http://www.knowislam.info/hadithsunnah.html
"The Sunnah is the example set by Muhammad in all aspects of life, from spiritual to mundane. The Hadith are the stories and narrations of the Sunnah as told by various individuals who were close to Muhammad. The majority of Muslims regard the Hadith as equal in importance with the Quran"
http://www.knowislam.info/hadithsunnah.html
Some might say that the Haddiths are not perfect, but that's only when compared with the Koran... "The point is not that Hadith is an unreliable source of information. On the contrary, Hadith lacks the level of reliability which is entailed in the basic sources of the Shari`ah. In other words, it is only when compared to the Qur'an and the Sunnah that Hadith seems wanting in reliability. Nevertheless, if one were to compare Hadith with, for instance, sources of other histories, it would easily surpass the reliability of the sources of other histories on all accounts. This is only due to the strenuous work done by the scholars of Hadith in this field of study."
http://www.understanding-islam.org/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=319&sscatid=69

 

[Montalban]

it is not uncommon for a 15 or 16 year old bride to marry a 30 40 year old man in the world outside of the u.s. infact it is common practice in tribal socities around the world. western socities seem to think that their way of life is the only way to go and everyone else is twisted of the mind, which is the road to intollerance and stupidity.

You are contradicting your assertion with you example. You are saying that the west is wrong when it thinks its way of life is the way of life is 'normal'. Your example is a practice in the US, and then you state that it happens in other places too, that is, it is 'normal' behaviour. I am not sure that this is what you meant to say.

 

[Montalban]

I expect all good believers to take note that there are so many sources and peoples who agree that Aisha was 9 years old when the marraige was consumated...

Question: What is the appropriate age for men and women to marry? Some of the young ladies of today do not accept to be married to men older than them and also some of the men do not get married from anyone older than them either. We hope for a response, may Allaah reward you.

Response:... The Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) married ‘Aa.ishah when he was fifty-three years old and she was nine years old. Older age is not harmful. There is no problem if the woman is older than the man and there is no problem if the man is older than the woman.
http://www.fatwa-online.com/fataawa/marriage/interview/9991018_20.htm

"Of the four ahâdîth in Sahîh al-Bukhari, two were narrated from cAishah (7:64 and 7:65), one from Abû Hishâm (5:236) and one via 'Ursa (7:88). All three of the ahâdîth in Sahîh Muslim have cAishah as a narrator. Additionally, all of the ahâdîth in both books agree that the marriage betrothal contract took place when cAishah was "six years old", but was not consummated until she was "nine years old". Additionally, a hadîth with the same text (matn) is reported in Sunan Abû Dâwûd. Needless to say, this evidence is - Islamically speaking - overwhelmingly strong and Muslims who deny it do so only by sacrificing their intellectual honesty, pure faith or both.
This evidence having been established, there doesn't seem much room for debate about cAishah's age amongst believing Muslims. Until someone proves that in the Arabic language "nine years old" means something other than "nine years old", then we should all be firm in our belief that she was "nine years old" (as if there's a reason or need to believe otherwise!?!). In spite of these facts, there are still some Muslim authors that have somehow (?) managed to push cAishah's age out to as far as "fourteen or fifteen years old" at the time of her marriage to the Prophet(P). It should come as no surprise, however, that none of them ever offer any proof, evidence or references for their opinions. This can be said with the utmost confidence, since certainly none of them can produce sources more authentic than the hadîth collections of Imâms al-Bukhârî and Muslim! Based on the research that I've done, I feel that there is a common source for those who claim that cAishah's age was "fourteen or fifteen years old" at the time of the marriage. This source is The Biographies of Prominent Muslims which is published in book form, on CD-ROM and is posted in several places on the Internet. Just another example of why going to the sources is important . . ."
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html
(We concur with the general contents of the article.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best Mufti Ebrahim Desai http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=6618)

Q: Aalim has proved thru his research that Aisha’s (Rad.) age was not 9 at the time of her marriage, she was 19. one of the Raavi, due to weak memory started giving false hadith
1. If you made a mistake while performing the missed Rakaats, then you must compensate for that by making Sajdah-e-Sahw.
2. It is advisable to make Mashwara (consult) and/or make Istikhaara in all major issues even if one is confident. Our knowledge and insight is limited. The guidance of Allah Ta’ala is perfect and absolute.
3. Hadhrat Aaisha (Radhiallaahu Anha) was married at the age of six. The Ahaadith pertaining to this are in Bukhari and Muslim, all the narrators of these Ahaadith are authentic.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=6778

You can marry even before she reaches puberty:
Question: Is it possible to have intercourse with girls before puberty, would not this physically and mentally harmful to the girl. Is such a thing permissible in Islam, and if it is permissible then what is the minimum age for marriage execution in Islam, since puberty is not a requirement.
Answer: In The Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Jurists discussed the issue of marrying a girl before puberty, i.e. a girl who might not be able to have sexual intercourse due to her young age.
They agreed that the Wali can marry a girl before puberty. But when she reaches puberty, she has the right to choose either to nullify the marriage contract or to continue her marital life.
Also, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, married `Aishah, may Allah be pleased with her, before she reached the age of puberty.
Hence, we conclude that puberty is not a condition for executing marriage. The only condition is the wife’s ability to bear responsibilities of marital life. However, we do not recommend marriage before puberty because at that early age the girl can’t fulfil her obligations towards her husband properly, nor can she know her rights towards him.
Thus, to avoid any negligence or liability on her part we do not recommend marriage at such an early age.
Allah Almighty knows best.
Dr. Su`aad Ibrahim Salih
http://www.islam-online.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=YFCeOS
(NOTE: When they say she can't bear her responsibilities, they mean she's probably unable to cook and clean for him)

 

[Montalban]

A full answer to this topic by the way is available on this page, in an article by Abdul Rahman Robert Squires:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

After the prophet peace be upon him passed away, Aishah, may Allah be pleased with her, spent the remaining 50 years of her life teaching Muslims, men and women, hadith and fiqh.

That was one of the wisdoms for her early marriage, to spend all these years in the transmission of Islamic knowledge to successive generations of Muslims and preserve Islam intact.

As a narrator of several thousand hadiths, Lady Aishah made an important contribution in this field.

Your contribution refutes all the other Muslims on the post because it affirms that she was only nine years old.

"Until someone proves that in the Arabic language "nine years old" means something other than "nine years old", then we should all be firm in our belief that she was "nine years old" (as if there's a reason or need to believe otherwise!?!"
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

 

[Cordoba]

The main point, Montalban, is that Lady Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, was beyond the age of puberty when she married, and that in those days marrying at a young age was normal.

Do you know that in California for example the age of consent for girls till the 19th century was 10 years old?

QUOTE
As in England, early lawmakers in this country adopted 10 as the age of consent. In the early 19th Century, states gradually raised the age of consent, in some cases to 21."(Donovan 97).
UNQUOTE

http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numbertwo.htm

Early marriages once girls reached the age of puberty were simply the norm in the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th. century.

When the prophet peace be upon him passed away, Lady Aisha was around 18 years old. She never re-married, and dedicated the remaining 50 years of her life to teaching Islam to Muslims, and had an important contribution in preserving Islam intact, especially the area of hadith.

Don't judge conditions in the 7th. century with today's criteria.

 

[Montalban]

The main point, Montalban, is that Lady Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, was beyond the age of puberty when she married, and that in those days marrying at a young age was normal.

The main point is that it is but speculation to say that she had reached puberty.* There is no evidence to suggest that she had. All we know is that Muhammed consumated the marriage when she was nine. You simply apply what you believe to be 'appropriate' behaviour (that he couldn't have possibly married a 'child') and apply that. Unless you have some references from Hadith to say that she was pubescent. What we do know from Islamic sources, including one you yourself were so good to cite is that she was nine years old at the time the marriage was consumated.

*The many Islamic advice sites I cited suggest you can marry a girl before she reaches puberty.
A further problem with this is because girls reach puberty first, by setting the 'age of consent' at that, you're going to end up getting younger girls than boys marrying. And a related problem is the issue of whether a girl who BEGINS to reach maturity is in fact ready for marriage. There is no evidence to suggest that a girl upon reaching puberty is automatically mentally mature and capable of adult decisions. This is something else you must be assuming.

Do you know that in California for example the age of consent for girls till the 19th century was 10 years old?

Please say why this is a 'good' thing? Are you saying that it is? It's hard to tell. Are you both arguing that Muhammed's example was not of marrying a child, but that Californian law was?

What bearing does this have anyway on what is an 'ideal' behaviour? I don't model my moral behaviour on Californian law. You model your behaviour on Muhammed. For a better comparison, look to Jesus Christ and see what He did in various circumstances and then bring examples to this debate... as I am a Christian (a follower of Christ), not someone who follows man-made laws.

When the prophet peace be upon him passed away, Lady Aisha was around 18 years old. She never re-married, and dedicated the remaining 50 years of her life to teaching Islam to Muslims, and had an important contribution in preserving Islam intact, especially the area of hadith.

Great. What has this got to do with her young age? Are you now suggesting that a child who has sex can lead a fruitful and normal life in adulthood?

Don't judge conditions in the 7th. century with today's criteria.

Not only is this something I'm not doing,* this is an un-Islamic statement to make. You are now saying that Muhammed's example was for only a particular time.

*I am not judging by a relative truth, but an eternal one.
I believe Jesus' example to be for all time. Most Muslims believe Muhammed's example to be for all time. So in order to defend Muhammed's behaviour you're both asking me to judge him as being relative of his age and also that somehow Californian law is an example for me???

 

[Montalban]

In effect Cordoba you seem to be having many different arguments all at once. Your post above contains a direct refutation of the source you quoted earlier which quite clearly states that she was nine. Which source are you now relying on; as it stands you have presented two conflicting ones.

You say that Muhammed didn't marry her when she was young, but that it was 'common' in Arabia at the time - was this a good thing, or a bad thing? Who knows, you don't say. Further you suggest that it was possible in other times and spaces (Californian law in the 19th Century etc). Is this a bad thing? Take a stance and tell me if you believe it's a good thing to be able to consumate a marriage with a nine year old.

I know for example that King John of England married a girl when she was either 11 or 13. Two things I can tell you about it; it's not ideal behaviour and as such it's not behaviour that we urge people to follow. No one I know models his/her behaviour on King John.

However I do know that people model their behaviour on Muhammed. Therefore comparing what Muhammed did to what King John did (or as you have done; to what Californian legislators did). It is the wrong example to be making (which is what you've done).

 

[Cordoba]

What I wrote is very clear, Montalban, marriage took place after puberty, whatever the age was (9 or more).

Your agenda is also very clear, so in order to save time, I suggest you read the article by Abdul Rahman Robert Squires posted above:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

 

[Montalban]

What I wrote is very clear, Montalban, marriage took place after puberty, whatever the age was (9 or more).

I thought you suggested that it was well after puberty; but this is still speculation on your part as you've shown me no evidence to show that in fact at age nine she had reached puberty, or was in the process thereof. Are we talking too, about the 'onset' of puberty, or puberty itself? Puberty is not instantaneous, but takes place over a while.

Your agenda is also very clear,

You don't have an agenda? So far you've avoided a large swathe of my questions, continually directing me to web-sites which I doubt you've read; hence you've presented two that give mutually exlcusive debates.

so in order to save time, I suggest you read the article by Abdul Rahman Robert Squires posted above:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

Why read it? Does it contradict the Hadiths that say she was nine? It then would be un-Islamic. If it does agree, then there's no point reading it either.

Perhaps 'saving time' is the problem. If you took the time to read the many Islamic sites I cited, you'd have a better understanding of what your own faith preaches. You're also yet to say which site do you agree with; you presented one that says she was nine, and one that says she wasn't. I agree with the former, for reasons already stated, but needs, obviously to be re-stated; the primary sources we have (the Hadith) all agree with her age when the marriage was consumated; she was nine years old.

I also note that you have avoided answering the question as to whether cosumating such a marriage is good or bad. Please tell me. I can tell you without doubt it is bad.

If these are problems then it is probably why several web-sites are unashamed of the matter and give free advice that it is okay.

 

[Cordoba]

One more time, Montalban, the age whether 9 or more is not the point.

The point is marriage took place after puberty, and early marriages were the norm in those days.

Try not to waste time.

 

[Montalban]

One more time, Montalban, the age whether 9 or more is not the point.

It is if you can't address
a) the evidence that says she was 9
and
b) whether you think (in general/principle) it is good or bad.

The point is marriage took place after puberty,

Speculation. You continue to avoid presenting evidence to this matter; and as stated a number of times, you've presented evidence that confirms what I've said.

and early marriages were the norm in those days.

Which again, as I've stated is irrelevant IF you believe that Muhammed is an example for all time; something else you've not been willing to answer.

 

[Montalban]

So far you've offered speculation regarding Aisha's age. It is contrary to the Hadith I've quoted, and is therefore not an Islamic point of view; as actually stated by one of the sites you cited.

 

[Cordoba]

I don't need to prove to you anything, Montalban

Early marriage was the norm, (like in California in the 19th century it was legal for a girl to get married at the age of 10, then later the age of consent was raised to 12 then 14, ... ).

Marriage did not take place till Lady Aisha was of age.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had so many enemies at the time in Makkah and elsewhere. Had this false claim been true, they would have attacked him with it, but they never did because it has no truth in it.

 

[Montalban]

I don't need to prove to you anything, Montalban

Indeed you don't. Answering a question I pose, might however be considered polite. Do you, or don't you believe that such a marriage is good or bad?*

Early marriage was the norm, (like in California in the 19th century it was legal for a girl to get married at the age of 10, then later the age of consent was raised to 12 then 14, ... ).

So who knows from this relativistic argument whether you believe it is good or bad.

Marriage did not take place till Lady Aisha was of age.

You mean she was nine.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had so many enemies at the time in Makkah and elsewhere. Had this false claim been true, they would have attacked him with it, but they never did because it has no truth in it.

That is illogical. First you say that early marriages were common in Arabia, now you believe a lack of 'attack' verifies that he didn't marry when she was young... the very practice you say was normal. Odd then that they didn't 'attack' it, huh? They'd have no reason too, which is why they celebrate it, by saying she was nine.

Once again you try every argument under the sun, and all at once.

Let's recap
a) Muhammad married her when she was 'of age' (implication, she was in her teens) your proof for this is your say so
b) that even if he did marry her when she was nine (which you don't admit) it was common practice (which was neither good nor bad anyway; so what' the problem in admitting her age?); and if it is a bad thing, well other people have done the same bad thing too.
c) even though it was common practice, Muhammad couldn't have done it
d) even though it was common practice, no one criticised him for it, so he couldn't have done it based on your say so
e) Muhammad was an example for all time, but this behaviour needs to be seen in a cultural context
f) you're here to answer question, only not mine, and you're not here to prove anything
g) you're 'proof' of her being of age is rested on speculation and goes against Islamic references, including one you made. My proofs are based on Hadith which oddly you don't seem to think are accurate.
h) when I ask you to reconcile the two conflicting sources you gave, you don't, but say I have an 'agenda' that you know all about.

All I ask is you to provide something more than your say so. If you don't want to answer, then there's really no point just writing to say you won't answer.

*I can tell you that it is indeed harmful...
"Fact Sheet No.23, Harmful Traditional Practices Affecting the Health of Women and Children

Traditional cultural practices reflect values and beliefs held by members of a community for periods often spanning generations. Every social grouping in the world has specific traditional cultural practices and beliefs, some of which are beneficial to all members, while others are harmful to a specific group, such as women. These harmful traditional practices include female genital mutilation (FGM); forced feeding of women; early marriage; the various taboos or practices which prevent women from controlling their own fertility; nutritional taboos and traditional birth practices; son preference and its implications for the status of the girl child; female infanticide; early pregnancy; and dowry price. Despite their harmful nature and their violation of international human rights laws, such practices persist because they are not questioned and take on an aura of morality in the eyes of those practising them."

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/fs23.htm

Fact Sheet No.23, Harmful Traditional Practices Affecting the Health of Women and Children
"Child marriage robs a girl of her childhood-time necessary to develop physically, emotionally and psychologically. In fact, early marriage inflicts great emotional stress as the young woman is removed from her parents' home to that of her husband and in-laws. Her husband, who will invariably be many years her senior, will have little in common with a young teenager. It is with this strange man that she has to develop an intimate emotional and physical relationship. She is obliged to have intercourse, although physically she might not be fully developed."

(Ibid)



"Research interest in the long-term effects of sexual contact between female children and adults has increased dramatically in the last two decades. Two sets of issues have driven this enhanced attention. The first concerns the nature and extent of the impact these experiences have on subsequent well-being in adulthood. Empirical research has offered evidence of the severe and wide ranging effects of adult-child sex by documenting its associations with a host of later "symptoms," such as low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, and sexual dysfunction."

"Sexual contact between children and adults: A life course perspective."

Browning, Christopher R; Laumann, Edward O

Citation: American Sociological Review, v62n4, pp.540-560, Aug 1997

Number: 03374356 Features: Table; Illustration; References

Copyright: American Sociological Association 1997

quoted at http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm

Note, this is the only avowedly anti-Islamic site I've cited. All my other sources in previous posts have been Islamic sources.