Backdoor to heaven

[Grannyalf]

Let's imagine a person who's been sinning all his life. Suddenly he feels remorse because he can feel God's existence; he hates God and knows he's going to hell. In his fear and frustration he thinks the following: What if I remove those bad memories/experiences from my mind? Then I will be granted passage to heaven! For God cannot be so cruel as to blindly judge me.

In the process the person's memories about exploiting is also removed. How do you believe God would handle this? The person has a different consciousness, with no clue whatsoever of what happend before. Would God revert his consciousness? Would he "kill" a man to torture another, or would he let him be as the faithful follower he became and let him transcend to heaven? Recreating the old consciousness or sending the "new" person to hell for "his" old deeds seems way too absurd to me.

Give me you opinions please.

 

[Evelyn]

It depends, if the transformation was self-inflicted then why wouldn't he be held accountalbe. If it's not self-inflicted then he starts from scractch. Sorta like a Dasmascus road experience.

 

[ChristineES]

I would find that irrelevant. When a person chooses God then he becomes a new person anyway, and his past sins are forgiven and forgotten. God is not like a human but people can only put God in their own perspective. God is greater than any human, and He knows things that no one on earth could possibly know.
If someone is narrow-minded, then their vision of God will also be narrow-minded, likewise if a person is merciful, then their vision of God will be merciful. And you can use any example there on.

 

[Grannyalf]

It depends, if the transformation was self-inflicted then why wouldn't he be held accountalbe. If it's not self-inflicted then he starts from scractch. Sorta like a Dasmascus road experience.

Is it fair to hold a person accountable for something he has no clue of? His old self is the cause for what he now is; but his old self doesn't exist anymore. Should we blame the new consciousness because it shared the same skin as the old one?

 

[ChristineES]

Is it fair to hold a person accountable for something he has no clue of? His old self is the cause for what he now is; but his old self doesn't exist anymore. Should we blame the new consciousness because it shared the same skin as the old one?

It is my opinion that God has mercy for people who are mentally ill, mentally handicapped, and so forth.

 

[Grannyalf]

I would find that irrelevant. When a person chooses God then he becomes a new person anyway, and his past sins are forgiven and forgotten. God is not like a human but people can only put God in their own perspective. God is greater than any human, and He knows things that no one on earth could possibly know.
If someone is narrow-minded, then their vision of God will also be narrow-minded, likewise if a person is merciful, then their vision of God will be merciful. And you can use any example there on.

Are you saying that a person could kill everyone on earth and then be forgiven? If not where does the limit for redemption go?

 

[ChristineES]

Are you saying that a person could kill everyone on earth and then be forgiven? If not where does the limit for redemption go?

Yes, God will forgive all sins but one (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit). The catch is that you have to repent (which means you are sorry and promise not do it again)

 

[Random]

If you've been bad all your life then turning to GOD for salvation because you're afraid of Hell and want Heaven makes you nothing less than an existential joke. Neither Heaven nor Hell want weaklings.

 

[Grannyalf]

Yes, God will forgive all sins but one (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit). The catch is that you have to repent (which means you are sorry and promise not do it again)

That's really weird. But still, through this exploit a person could even escape the punishment for blasphemy.

 

[ChristineES]

That's really weird. But still, through this exploit a person could even escape the punishment for blasphemy.

I would not worry, I have never heard anyone blasphemy the Holy Spirit plus the fact I don't believe anyone could possible commit this blasphemy if he does not believe in God.

 

[Evelyn]

Is it fair to hold a person accountable for something he has no clue of? His old self is the cause for what he now is; but his old self doesn't exist anymore. Should we blame the new consciousness because it shared the same skin as the old one?

Only if I am the cause of the new. Kinda like injecting myself with a serum that makes me forget.

 

[slabbey06]

Let's imagine a person who's been sinning all his life. Suddenly he feels remorse because he can feel God's existence; he hates God and knows he's going to hell. In his fear and frustration he thinks the following: What if I remove those bad memories/experiences from my mind? Then I will be granted passage to heaven! For God cannot be so cruel as to blindly judge me.

In the process the person's memories about exploiting is also removed. How do you believe God would handle this? The person has a different consciousness, with no clue whatsoever of what happend before. Would God revert his consciousness? Would he "kill" a man to torture another, or would he let him be as the faithful follower he became and let him transcend to heaven? Recreating the old consciousness or sending the "new" person to hell for "his" old deeds seems way too absurd to me.

Give me you opinions please.

I think the question is irrelevant because whether we can remember the bad things we've done in the past or not, the fact is that we are still sinning every day, and it's our sin that separates us from God and justly sends us to hell.
But you brought up a very interesting point with referring to the "new" person compared to "his" old deeds. When I put my faith in Christ alone, I may not have forgotten my old deeds, but in essence He forgot them, He wiped the slate clean, He canceled the debt I owed Him and could never pay. So now I am a "new" person. I was dead in my transgressions and sins, but now I am alive in Christ Jesus.
" And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Eph. 2:1-9

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 2 Cor. 5:17

 

[j dik]

well, if he sinned, couldn't he just go to church on sunday and say he's sorry? then alls forgiven? or however those christians are...

 

[Grannyalf]

If you've been bad all your life then turning to GOD for salvation because you're afraid of Hell and want Heaven makes you nothing less than an existential joke. Neither Heaven nor Hell want weaklings.

Read the first post before posting! Your assertion is irrelevant. My illustration is about a person who exploits the rules, not some weakling begging for mercy.

 

[slabbey06]

Are you saying that a person could kill everyone on earth and then be forgiven?

If they put their faith in Christ...yes.

 

[Grannyalf]

Only if I am the cause of the new. Kinda like injecting myself with a serum that makes me forget.

But the new person is not aware of any of this.

 

[ChristineES]

If someone only accepts God because he is afraid of hell and really does not accept God, then is he really saved? I think we all know the answer to that.

 

[Grannyalf]

well, if he sinned, couldn't he just go to church on sunday and say he's sorry? then alls forgiven? or however those christians are...

Yes, I just found out that's possible too. But not for blasphemy; there's where the exploit comes in. :yes:

I think the question is irrelevant because whether we can remember the bad things we've done in the past or not, the fact is that we are still sinning every day, and it's our sin that separates us from God and justly sends us to hell.

How does this constitute my question as irrelevant. Do you mean it is irrelevant in the sense that It's impossible to escape hell? Because my illustration is illustrating how to escape hell even if you're the worst sinner there is. But that doesn't seem to matter according to information in this thread, since God/Jesus can forgive everything anyway.

So I want to know why the concept of hell exists when you cannot get there?

 

[slabbey06]

How does this constitute my question as irrelevant. Do you mean it is irrelevant in the sense that It's impossible to escape hell? Because my illustration is illustrating how to escape hell even if you're the worst sinner there is. But that doesn't seem to matter according to information in this thread, since God/Jesus can forgive everything anyway.

So I want to know why the concept of hell exists when you cannot get there?

Maybe irrelevant was a poor choice of wording. I believe the Bible teaches it's impossible to escape hell UNLESS one puts their faith in God/Jesus alone. I believe your illustration falls short because in it one's escaping hell is not based upon trust in Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection. This matters deeply! It's a matter of eternity. God offers forgiveness to anyone for anything they've done, but like all gifts offered we have to receive it. I don't believe the concept of hell exists, I believe hell exists. I was headed there, and I fully deserved it. When I put my faith in Christ, He saved me from the penalty of hell I deserved. So now that I am His child, I cannot get there. There is an escape from hell even if you're the worst sinner there is, but that escape is found only in Jesus Christ.
"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

 

[Super Universe]

Let's imagine a person who's been sinning all his life. Suddenly he feels remorse because he can feel God's existence; he hates God and knows he's going to hell. In his fear and frustration he thinks the following: What if I remove those bad memories/experiences from my mind? Then I will be granted passage to heaven! For God cannot be so cruel as to blindly judge me.

In the process the person's memories about exploiting is also removed. How do you believe God would handle this? The person has a different consciousness, with no clue whatsoever of what happend before. Would God revert his consciousness? Would he "kill" a man to torture another, or would he let him be as the faithful follower he became and let him transcend to heaven? Recreating the old consciousness or sending the "new" person to hell for "his" old deeds seems way too absurd to me.

Give me you opinions please.

Memories aren't what send you to hell, overuling selfishness does. Selfishness is a personality trait, it's in you, a part of you, like a code inside your computer brain.

We're supposed to be hard headed. We were created selfish for a reason and that reason is to see if any of us will still choose to control our selfishness and rule over it and devote our lives to others.

I am nothing on my own. I do not matter unless I have done everything I can to help others. What you do for your own children you should do ten times as much for a stranger but so many refuse to accept this.

God does not "handle" anything other than creating the universe every moment. If you jump off a cliff do you think God makes you plummet to the ground? The universe has laws that do all the "handling" and many ascended beings help as well.

Going to hell is not something God directs, the universe is like a computer program, it sends you where you deserve to go.