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Bad Interpretations of Wicca
- Thread starter fabbers
- Start date
Lycan
Preternatural
Less flexible? I can't think of a religion off the top of my head that has more denominations than Christianity!
okes head in:The high number of denominations doesn't signify flexibility, it displays the inability to agree. I would also have to agree on christianity being less "flexible" than wicca, due in part to the monotheist/polythiest difference. Wiccans choose from a number of different pantheons (Celtic, Norse, etc.). Not to mention the mingling of customs and traditions from different faiths. Where as, all christians believe in the same single god and generally (not all) practice the established traditions and customs (even with eclectic roots)
Circle_One
Well-Known Member
But Flabbers, you aren't exactly proving the flexibility of Paganism, as all you've posted so far are the bad things people think about Wicca and why they make you mad. That's not very flexible. Again, I wish you peace within yourself and towards others. Forget all that's made you angry about Christianity or other religions and be positive about your beliefs. It will generate more positive feelings towards you by others, including the Christians on here.
Prima
Well-Known Member
The Church, capital letter, refers generally to the Roman Catholic church. Are you thinking of any particular denomination?
Flexibility does not necessarily have anything to do with whether it's a cult or not. Islamic rules can be very rigid, and it's certainly not a cult. I recommed reading a listing of cults - this can be found at your local library's reference section. They're very interesting.
I can definitely say that not all Christians are the way you say. There's a bad apple in every bunch/barrel, as they say - but that doesn't make the rest bad!
kreeden
Virus of the Mind
Others are Feathers .FeathersinHair said:
You just don't realize it . Everytime you meet someone , everytime you stop to chat , they carry away a little more of what it is to be you , as you carry away a little of their experiences . Cool , isn't it ? { sorry , a little off topic , but had to say that }
crowdog66
New Member
The word "cult" can mean many things to many people. Personally, I find the Isaac Bonewits Cult Evaluation Framework useful for evaluating the "cultishness" of any given group, where "cult" is defined in terms of the level of control exerted by the group over its members. Each factor is rated on a scale of 1 to 10, and the higher the overall rating, the more cultish the group.
Crowdog66
The Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame
(version 2.6)
1 Internal Control: Amount of internal political and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organizational rights for members.[size=+1]
[/size]2 External Control: Amount of external political and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members external political and social behavior. [size=+1]
[/size]3 Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.
4 Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations made by leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or external critics and/or towards verification efforts.
5 Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility orfundamentalism; hostility towards relativism and situationalism.
6 Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amount of proselytizing; requirement for all members to bring in new ones. 7 Front Groups: Number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.
8 Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.
9 Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of non-tantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in terms of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.
10 Sexual Favoritism: Advancement or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.
11 Censorship: Amount of control over members access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).
12 Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communicating with non-members, including family, friends and lovers.
13 Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.
14 Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).
15 Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.
16 Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).
17 Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible for personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).
18 Hypocrisy: amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s); willingness to violate the groups declared principles for political, psychological, social, economic, military, or other gain.
Crowdog66
The Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame
(version 2.6)
1 Internal Control: Amount of internal political and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organizational rights for members.[size=+1]
[/size]2 External Control: Amount of external political and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members external political and social behavior. [size=+1]
[/size]3 Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.
4 Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations made by leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or external critics and/or towards verification efforts.
5 Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility orfundamentalism; hostility towards relativism and situationalism.
6 Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amount of proselytizing; requirement for all members to bring in new ones. 7 Front Groups: Number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.
8 Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.
9 Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of non-tantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in terms of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.
10 Sexual Favoritism: Advancement or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.
11 Censorship: Amount of control over members access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).
12 Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communicating with non-members, including family, friends and lovers.
13 Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.
14 Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).
15 Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.
16 Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).
17 Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible for personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).
18 Hypocrisy: amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s); willingness to violate the groups declared principles for political, psychological, social, economic, military, or other gain.
Copyright © 1979, 2001 c.e., Isaac Bonewits. This text file may be freely distributed on the Net, provided that no editing is done, the version number is retained, and everything in this notice box is included.
I'm Very Aware It Sounds Pompous To Think That People Would Actually KILL Because Someone Was Openly Wiccan, But Unfortunately There Are Extremists Out There.
In Fact, A While Back, Maybe Ten Years Ago, There Was A LYNCHING Of A Wiccan, Just Because Of Their Religion. Every Month There Are Reported Shootings, Attacks, And Robberies Of Witches, Just Because Of Their Beliefs.
One Of My Sisters In My Coven Was Verbally Attacked About A Month Ago In The Local Store, Some Big-Headed Christian (I Don't Mean To Point Fingers At A Specific Religion) Was Babbeling On About How She Was A "F***ing Witch" And She Was Here To "Conjure Up Satan."
People Do Get The Wrong Ideas Of Wicca.
And Jensa, Your Comment On The Pentagram, Although It Was Created Before Wicca Was A "Religion" Pursay, The Wiccans Have Adopted It To Show The Different Elements.
Satanists inverted the pentagram and used it as their religious symbol, but it more frequently appears with a goat's head inside it, which forms the symbol of Baphomet.
Religious Tolerance With Wicca Is An Issue And Should Be Taken More Seriously.
In Fact, A While Back, Maybe Ten Years Ago, There Was A LYNCHING Of A Wiccan, Just Because Of Their Religion. Every Month There Are Reported Shootings, Attacks, And Robberies Of Witches, Just Because Of Their Beliefs.
One Of My Sisters In My Coven Was Verbally Attacked About A Month Ago In The Local Store, Some Big-Headed Christian (I Don't Mean To Point Fingers At A Specific Religion) Was Babbeling On About How She Was A "F***ing Witch" And She Was Here To "Conjure Up Satan."
People Do Get The Wrong Ideas Of Wicca.
And Jensa, Your Comment On The Pentagram, Although It Was Created Before Wicca Was A "Religion" Pursay, The Wiccans Have Adopted It To Show The Different Elements.
Satanists inverted the pentagram and used it as their religious symbol, but it more frequently appears with a goat's head inside it, which forms the symbol of Baphomet.
Religious Tolerance With Wicca Is An Issue And Should Be Taken More Seriously.
john63
titmouse
Persecution isn't exclusive to Wicca. I get profanity all the time because I'm a Christian. You can see just in this forum alone that Christians are the most disliked group in the world. People hate us worse than they hate terrorists!fabbers said:being wiccan these are my beliefs.
In the environment i am in at the moment there have been three bad interpretations of Wicca.
1)That wicca is a brainwashing cult
ok that is just ridiculous. just because there are spells and rituals and something called a book of shadows doesnt mean that Wicca is a cult. in my mind The Church is more of a cult than Wicca.
2)That Wicca is just a womans religion.
that in my mind is almost more ridiculous then wicca being a cult. because of course women can join (all beings are equal) and of course men can join. Wicca DOES NOT discriminate against gender.
3)That Wiccans Worship The Devil (Satan)
that just like the top two are ridiculous. wiccans do not even believe in Satan. Satan is part of the christian pantheon which wiccans dont use much. so that is utterly ridiculous that wiccans worship the devil.
4)that wiccans can conjure demons
someone said to me, after i said that i was wiccan if i could conjure a demon for him. i found this very insulting. i chose to ignore him. but he kept saying and then said he was serious. i obviously knew that he was being silly.
those are only four of the many of the lies being spread agaisnt wiccans. our job is to heal and to teach, not to destroy. we do not harm beings. we are a peaceful kind. we do not mean to destroy christianity like christianity and the church sought out (and still does) to kill wicca and the pagan religions. that is why a simple design like the pentagram
that has been the wiccan symbol since wicca was created was made into the devil sign. that is why the swastika was turned into a sign of evil by hitler. both were non harmful, non evil designs turned evil.
Tez
Member
I looked into the history of the pentagram a while ago, since I was curious to where it actually came from. I found that it was first written in ancient Babylon in with come cuneiform writing it was used for the word "UB", (just in case you dont know cuneiform is the oldest written language we know of). Since then it has been used in many religion, Christianity used to use it to represent the five wounds of Jesus. It also was used to represent the seal of Solomon, but then that got changed to the six-pointed star.Jensa said:
turk179
I smell something....
I would have to disagree with you there. It is because of this forum that I have changed my views of Christianity. I have never met such a kind and thoughtful group of Christians than I have on this forum. I have also learned that it is not an individuals religion that makes people dislike them. It is how they represent their religion that will make or break an individual. And beside, I thought Christianity was still the majority religion in the U.S. Why are you worried about a select few people causing you grief because they wont take the time to find out the type of Christian you are?john63 said:
It might interest you to know that I spent the morning leading an activity for teenagers about Imbolc and I also have a display up on the chaplaincy noticeboard. One student came to me to say the pentagram I'd used wasn't the most appropriate for pagans so I just came back to the office to print a new poster out of respect for her opinion. I found this thread on a google search because of the picture (thank you it is just what I wanted) I'm a Christian and I spent my morning teaching people about Paganism. Whether you use capital letters or lower case bunching people together is just silly. Yes, many Christians misunderstand paganism, but two wrongs don't make a right.
Vasilisa Jade
Formerly Saint Tigeress
Wow! That is really awsome that you are teaching your fellow christians about paganism! I am speechless that you would go so far out of your way to promote tolerance. I hope you stick around the forum. I am sure you are probably very knowledgable and that everyone would enjoy your contribution to the discussions!
Wow! The thing is stuff like this probably still happens to all kinds of various people of various faiths. I think it is just downplayed by the news. Why hear about a wiccan, muslim, or jew or others being discriminated agianst when you can hear about Lil Miss Spears?!
Mike182
Flaming Queer
there are misconceptions about every religion, so Wicca is in no way special for that.
Wicca is certainly the most prominant of the Pagan religions, it seems to be the one most represented in book shops, so although there are misconceptions about Wicca, decent enough information on Wicca is easily available.
anyway, i like the misconceptions brought up in the OP, i think i'll write my own reply to them
1)That wicca is a brainwashing cult
ok, well first of all i think it's important to distinguish between solitary practitioners and group practitioners. if it's just you on your own with some books learning, trying, experiencing and practising then there is no group to use the word cult - because it's only that one person teaching themself. in group workings, it is harder to say, because i have never actually had to reply to this specific question. the characteristics of a cult become predominantly clear when members try to leave the cult. Wiccan covens have never had any problems with people leaving them, so that would be a pretty clear indication to me that Wicca is not a cult.
one need only look at the techniques and teachings within Wicca to realise that individual members are instructed to work and develop on their own as well as in a group setting, which would surely have the oposite affect to brainwashing - it would make them independant.
2)That Wicca is just a womans religion.
well, that laregely depend supon who you talk to... the vast majority of Wiccans will say no, Wicca is not just a woman's religion, because one of the key underlining principles of Wicca is the idea of universal balance. the masculine and the feminine are needed to create life, the God and the Goddess created and sustain the earth, molded and breathed life into humanity... plus many other examples of the need to balance the masculine with the feminine. for Wicca to just be for women would destroy that sense of balance.
3)That Wiccans Worship The Devil (Satan)
to be fair, Wiccans do have the Horned God. the Horned God, who goes by many names, like Herne, Kurninos, Pan etc, is a sexually active force, and sexuality is traditionally something that is looked down upon in Christianity. so in that respect, Pan is horned and sexually deviant, it is easy to see how comparisons were drawn between Pan and the Satan of Christianity. but no, Pan is also a guide, an inspiration, and a teacher, who is not at all interested in bringing about the mindless destruction of humanity. He is not Satan.
4)that wiccans can conjure demons
that depends upon who you talk to. some Wiccans deny the existence of demons all together, so would see this question as moot. other Wiccans won't deny the existence of demons, some of whom will say they have no intention or desire to work with demons so wouldn't consider it, others will say that they do work with demons and receive informations from demons in order to balance out their point of view.
although, the notion of demons is a vastly complex one anyway, so this question could take up an entire thread to itself.
i will however say that it is nothing like Charmed or Buffy. that is just a dramatisation with flashy filming. it does make for good watching, i certainly enjoy Buffy and Charmed, but don't use them as the authority on Pagan matters.
Wicca is certainly the most prominant of the Pagan religions, it seems to be the one most represented in book shops, so although there are misconceptions about Wicca, decent enough information on Wicca is easily available.
anyway, i like the misconceptions brought up in the OP, i think i'll write my own reply to them
1)That wicca is a brainwashing cult
ok, well first of all i think it's important to distinguish between solitary practitioners and group practitioners. if it's just you on your own with some books learning, trying, experiencing and practising then there is no group to use the word cult - because it's only that one person teaching themself. in group workings, it is harder to say, because i have never actually had to reply to this specific question. the characteristics of a cult become predominantly clear when members try to leave the cult. Wiccan covens have never had any problems with people leaving them, so that would be a pretty clear indication to me that Wicca is not a cult.
one need only look at the techniques and teachings within Wicca to realise that individual members are instructed to work and develop on their own as well as in a group setting, which would surely have the oposite affect to brainwashing - it would make them independant.
2)That Wicca is just a womans religion.
well, that laregely depend supon who you talk to... the vast majority of Wiccans will say no, Wicca is not just a woman's religion, because one of the key underlining principles of Wicca is the idea of universal balance. the masculine and the feminine are needed to create life, the God and the Goddess created and sustain the earth, molded and breathed life into humanity... plus many other examples of the need to balance the masculine with the feminine. for Wicca to just be for women would destroy that sense of balance.
3)That Wiccans Worship The Devil (Satan)
to be fair, Wiccans do have the Horned God. the Horned God, who goes by many names, like Herne, Kurninos, Pan etc, is a sexually active force, and sexuality is traditionally something that is looked down upon in Christianity. so in that respect, Pan is horned and sexually deviant, it is easy to see how comparisons were drawn between Pan and the Satan of Christianity. but no, Pan is also a guide, an inspiration, and a teacher, who is not at all interested in bringing about the mindless destruction of humanity. He is not Satan.
4)that wiccans can conjure demons
that depends upon who you talk to. some Wiccans deny the existence of demons all together, so would see this question as moot. other Wiccans won't deny the existence of demons, some of whom will say they have no intention or desire to work with demons so wouldn't consider it, others will say that they do work with demons and receive informations from demons in order to balance out their point of view.
although, the notion of demons is a vastly complex one anyway, so this question could take up an entire thread to itself.
i will however say that it is nothing like Charmed or Buffy. that is just a dramatisation with flashy filming. it does make for good watching, i certainly enjoy Buffy and Charmed, but don't use them as the authority on Pagan matters.
McBell
Unbound
One thing I have noticed is that every tom dick and/or harry that comes up with a new belief system tends to call it Wicca.
There used to be a website called WhyWiccansSuck.com, but I have been unable to find it for some time now.
But it did an excellent job of showing the difference between wiccans and fluffy bunnies.
There used to be a website called WhyWiccansSuck.com, but I have been unable to find it for some time now.
But it did an excellent job of showing the difference between wiccans and fluffy bunnies.
Vasilisa Jade
Formerly Saint Tigeress
That is super interesting! I would love to talk to someone who practices that and learn more about it. I try not to judge a book by its cover. The ones that are the easiest to judge always end up the most suprising it seems... being the last thing you expected, and sometimes worth holding onto.