Baha'i and Messengers

[CG Didymus]

Yes not only the priests but the traditions also are challenged and people are confronted with change which is out of their comfort zone so it is as a test, a woe and they oppose it. Take today. World peace may depend upon world unity but after such tragic history humanity is extremely reluctant to put its trust in a world parliament or government so again, it’s a woe, a great test for humanity.

In case you didn't know... I don't believe in the "prophecy" about the virgin birth in the gospel of Matthew. I think ii is totally and completely taken out of context. The problem is that who knows who wrote Matthew and came up with that story about the virgin birth. But the Three Woes is from Abdul Baha. You like it? Fine. I don't see it in the context.

 

[Sheldon]

I know, and my approach is different form most believers. I try to use logic

Wow, after all the times it has been explained, you use a known logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum, and in the same sentence make a rhetorical claim that your are being logical.

If you really were minded to adhere to the principles of logic, you would not keep relentlessly using known logical fallacies. I'm guessing you will accuse me of bias again now, and quote the definition of the fallacy, and then pretend you haven't made a bare appeal to numbers there, but this will only confirm you are demonstrably not "trying to be logical". No offence intended obviously.

Now a quick question, and you don't have to answer obviously, as it is a hypothetical question, otherwise it might be perceived as a false dichotomy fallacy.

For the sake of argument, if you had only two choices, and I am not saying you do, but if you did, would you choose adherence to logic, or your faith in your religious beliefs?

 

[Sundance]

What's interesting is that even Christians who say they believe the Bible literally, don't believe those verses literally.

Indeed, they don’t.

 

[Sheldon]

No, the evidence is not invisible or unknowable, it is all over the internet to read about. God is knowable, but only to a very limited extent.

Unfortunately after requesting you convey this "knowledge" you have failed to offer anything beyond bare subjective assertions, yours, and your religion's, and end to end known logical fallacies of course.

 

[Sheldon]

KWED said: ↑
Now, do you accept that you can't see the unicorns because you aren't looking for them sincerely with an open heart? Or is it because they aren't there?

Because they aren't there,

 

[loverofhumanity]

In case you didn't know... I don't believe in the "prophecy" about the virgin birth in the gospel of Matthew. I think ii is totally and completely taken out of context. The problem is that who knows who wrote Matthew and came up with that story about the virgin birth. But the Three Woes is from Abdul Baha. You like it? Fine. I don't see it in the context.

How do you understand it and what is the correct context as you see it?

 

[Sheldon]

That's true, and Baha'u'llah said that we should be very skeptical.

Then kudos, as I am extremely sceptical about his unevidenced claims to have received a divine revelation.

 

[Sheldon]

There are no facts concerning God

God is a faith belief because there is no way to prove that God exists.

Nobody is obliged to believe in God,

No, the evidence is not invisible or unknowable, it is all over the internet to read about. God is knowable,

 

[Vinayaka]

The Sikhs are interesting, because they aren't Muslim, and they aren't Hindu. So, why isn't their founder not a manifestation? Other than he never claimed to be. But as far as I can tell neither did Abraham or Moses.

Then there is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. He did claim to be the Mahdi but didn't start a new religion. It's fascinating to me how something so simple like there is one God and he sent a few messengers, and all religions came from him, got this complicated. And then finally, with one of his messengers, he uncomplicates everything and says, "Forget what I told you before. Listen to this messenger. He's the real deal and will tell you straight."

Indeed Sikhs are interesting, mostly for their social work, work ethic, etc. They found a way to feed people here, despite Covid. One of the local mosques opens its doors for shelter on extreme cold days. The Baha'i Center, despite being a few blocks away from where the homeless mostly gather in my city, sits empty on cold nights. It could have been a wonderful gesture. The mosque is a few miles outside of that district, and the desperate have to find a way to get there. There are many secular and Christian groups operating downtown though.

 

[Sheldon]

The God of the Bible is the God we both believe in.

I doubt that, but go to one of their churches and tell them, then try the Taliban, and ISIS, then the Vatican, then...well you get the idea.

 

[Sheldon]

One possible solution to remedy the problem of farmers migrating to cities is to make farming income financially sustainable and profitable.

Food and Farming

Financial Security

An underlying problem with the agricultural economy is the continual change in the fortunes of farmers, depending on market forces, weather and other factors. To help cope with this situation, the Bahá'í Writings specify a village fund, known as the storehouse. This is a model based on a village farming community but the principles can also be extended to towns and cities:

"To solve this problem we must begin with the farmer..... In every village there must be established a general storehouse which will have a number of revenues...."

Most of the revenues are based on the use of the land. One is a graduated tax on farmers who are in profit, another is a percentage of profits from mining or extraction work. Those who do not work on the land will likewise pay a percentage of their surplus income. Local trustees will pay out from this storehouse to those in need, including farmers during the lean years.

In essence, this financial storehouse is very different from the present arrangements. It is a permanent and local system which emphasises the fundamental importance of a successful agricultural economy.

This system will also operate on a regional and national level. Any surplus from the local storehouse would be sent to a central fund, for use in less fortunate areas. Likewise the local area would receive help from this central fund if this became necessary.

And this will magically replace global capitalism, as we all voluntarily enter an egalitarian age, but only if we accept your superstitious beliefs are real? Musssttttt nottttt commenttttt .....

Where has this deity been one wonders?

 

[loverofhumanity]

My brother, the 7th Day Adventist, can show you "facts', geological facts that the Earth is not billions of years old and that there was a world-wide flood. At they are trying. And, ironically, I doubt Baha'is would even beliefs their "facts." And, since Baha'is believe in evolution, they don't believe in "fact" of how the Bible says that God created humans and animals.

Actually we believe in the 7 days of creation as well as evolution.

The ‘days’ spoken of in Genesis, we believe are speaking about ‘Divine Days’. That is, the appearance of Manifestations of God are considered to be a ‘Day of God’. So since Adam, there have been about seven Manifestations of God appear. But we accept that this earth, according to scientists is some 4.5 billion years old. The Bible is not referring to physical creation.

What is intended by the creation of heaven and earth in six days is a spiritual creation and a divine day, (Abdul-Baha)

 

[rational experiences]

A percentage of natural humans say I believe in self human spirituality. A basic off the grid lifestyle. Peace on earth. No religious wars thanks.

Religious based on creed DNA national indoctrination. About leaders DNA trade greed resource invention.

Reason why believing in gods of destruction being ethically science as religious science. Destruction is non acceptable. We know naturally.

You don't have to argue particular stories or data we are just aware as natural humans.

Reason as fact of life on earth family first not thesis.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I doubt that, but go to one of their churches and tell them, then try the Taliban, and ISIS, then the Vatican, then...well you get the idea.

It may not be reciprocal but we still accept the same God.

 

[Sheldon]

God did not become flesh as that would be an incarnation, not a Manifestation.

incarnation
noun

1. a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit, or quality.

manifestation
noun

1. an event, action, or object that clearly shows or embodies something abstract or theoretical.

I'm not seeing how those concepts are mutually exclusive to be honest? Perhaps you can explain why you think they are?

 

[rational experiences]

If you state to just any human why argue religious national thesis?

It's a science earth O planet heavens argument about wise men Phi losophers scientists

Who caused life attack by O earth changes.

Actually.

If men who use science as an equal human say I observe to tell me wrong or right. They observed they were wrong.

Pretty basic advice for liars as since when did a human telling stories create life?

 

[rational experiences]

Actually we believe in the 7 days of creation as well as evolution.

The ‘days’ spoken of in Genesis, we believe are speaking about ‘Divine Days’. That is, the appearance of Manifestations of God are considered to be a ‘Day of God’. So since Adam, there have been about seven Manifestations of God appear. But we accept that this earth, according to scientists is some 4.5 billion years old. The Bible is not referring to physical creation.

What is intended by the creation of heaven and earth in six days is a spiritual creation and a divine day, (Abdul-Baha)

O earth formed not by a reaction. God says men of science earth O evolved.

Only evolution is acceptable.

Intelligent human. O Rock existed it's volcanic mountain arose God earth erection had sex with space womb.

Gods O earth law only an erection. No lying says the scientist.

Heavens also evolution until it evolved in space as a heavens.

Both involved evolution. Cooling.

Law of life cooled. Non reactive no argument whatsoever.

Man of science said. I changed earth by knowing the heavens. State where gas was. Earth only owned dusts.

I reacted ground state. It burnt for six days stopped on day seven.

A day doesn't exist. A balanced heavens exists.

A scientists science reason why man caused fallout in the heavens.

 

[F1fan]

If it is your choice, throw it all out.

I am happy to leave it at that.

Regards Tony

So you seem helpless in being able to present your case with facts and reason. If you had the truth this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And this will magically replace global capitalism, as we all voluntarily enter an egalitarian age, but only if we accept your superstitious beliefs are real? Musssttttt nottttt commenttttt .....

Where has this deity been one wonders?

It’s always humanity’s choice to make. If humanity prefers one system over another then it’s their choice.

 

[F1fan]

My brother, the 7th Day Adventist, can show you "facts', geological facts that the Earth is not billions of years old and that there was a world-wide flood. At they are trying. And, ironically, I doubt Baha'is would even beliefs their "facts." And, since Baha'is believe in evolution, they don't believe in "fact" of how the Bible says that God created humans and animals.

Yes, all in the "alternative facts" category, which means not facts.