Baha'ullah: Non-Baha'is Are ********

[outhouse]

I am hateful or Baha'ullah hateful sayings?

BOTH.

But only you are talking the ancient sayings out of context. Makes you more guilty

 

[mojtaba]

BOTH.

But only you are talking the ancient sayings out of context. Makes you more guilty

Thank you!

 

[mojtaba]

Whats your point? The God calls unbelievers "worst of creatures" in the Quran so even worse than ********.

Not All unbelievers are the worst of creatures

Holy Quran, Chapter 8:
Indeed the worst of creatures in Allah’s sight are those who are faithless; so they will not have faith. (55) —Those with whom you made a treaty, and who violated their treaty every time, and who are not righteous. (56)

 

[FearGod]

Not All unbelievers are the worst of creatures

Holy Quran, Chapter 8:
Indeed the worst of creatures in Allah’s sight are those who are faithless; so they will not have faith. (55) —Those with whom you made a treaty, and who violated their treaty every time, and who are not righteous. (56)

The disbelievers will defend all religions in this world except Islam and that tells it all.

 

[raph]

Not All unbelievers are the worst of creatures

Holy Quran, Chapter 8:
Indeed the worst of creatures in Allah’s sight are those who are faithless; so they will not have faith. (55) —Those with whom you made a treaty, and who violated their treaty every time, and who are not righteous. (56)

Meant sura 98. It does not specify at all. It calls all unbelievers worst of creatures. But nevermind, I dont want to diss the Quran here, just wanted to show that context is important.

I further dont think that a follower of Khomeini may complain about torment verses. Torture was his specialty.

I am sure that Bahaullah was friendly to the good people of the Shias and polytheists.

 

[FearGod]

Meant sura 98. It does not specify at all. It calls all unbelievers worst of creatures. But nevermind, I dont want to diss the Quran here, just wanted to show that context is important.

I further dont think that a follower of Khomeini may complain about torment verses. Torture was his specialty.

I am sure that Bahaullah was friendly to the good people of the Shias and polytheists. Read the tabernacle of unity and who it was addressed to.

The verse describes their condition in the hereafter and not in this world.
Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.(98:6)

 

[raph]

The verse describes their condition in the hereafter and not in this world.
Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.(98:6)

Imo you can read it both ways. "Those are" is present tense. Also I dont think, that they are good creatures, if they deserve eternall hell. They had to be very bad creatures before death, to deserve eternall fire after death.

 

[Mackerni]

It's funny how this thread was derailed from being anti-Baha'i and is now instead anti-Islam. New religious movements tend to be either entirely bat-**** crazy or totally bat-**** loving. Baha'is are the later. If I were a monotheist my only religion would be Baha'i. I'm always afraid as a follower of Baha'u'llah that I will find something, some sacred text or otherwise in the Baha'i Faith that won't make sense to me. That has never happened. Everything you've quoted you take out of context. People see what they want to see in religion. I don't get the same connection or feeling as someone who is a Christian does when they read the Bible, like they don't feel the same way when I read Gleanings or the Aqdas.

 

[mojtaba]

I further dont think that a follower of Khomeini may complain about torment verses. Torture was his specialty.

If Ayatullah Khumeini was as you have said, may Allah forgive him. But if he was not as you have said, may Allah forgive you.

Baha'is in Iran are in universities, schools, etc., and enjoy their rights. That is Propaganda of USA and Israel, like the Propaganda of Iran peaceful nulear program( which have proved that is a big lie ).

You are ignorant about the facts.
Ayatullah Khomeini:
I hope you can show the image of Islam as it is. Today governments want to present a repulsive image of Iran to the world. The mass media and other organizations internationally bring up the issue of human rights, claim Bahais have no freedom in Iran or they are imprisoned for Bahaism when they see victory of Iran or when they see the oppression of Iraq against us.
(Source: Sahifeh-ye imam Khomeini Volume 18, page 319)

Ayatullah Khomeini:
However, we tell you that the Tudeh party not because it was the Tudeh Party and the Bahais not because of their belonging to the outlawed Bahai sect were prosecuted by our prosecutors and sentenced to imprisonment. They had problems; the Tudeh party came forward and confessed all their activities and they have a record.The Bahais are not a faith, they are a party, a party that in the past was supported by the British and are at present being supported by the Americans —they too are spies just like them. If they were not spies, then well, there are many other people that have ideological deviations; they are communists, they are other things but our prosecutors do not arrest and imprison them because they are Communists or have ideological deviations.
(Source: Sahifeh-ye imam Khomeini Volume 17, page 427)

I am sure that Bahaullah was friendly to the good people of the Shias and polytheists.

Baha'ullah has said that All Shia are Polytheist!(Which is a big Slander, because we are pure Monotheist)

Baha'ullah:

لعمرالله حزب شيعه از مشركين از قلم اعلي در صحيفه حمرا مذكور و مسطور​

"I swear by the age of Allah!!!( Allah has age?! ) the Shias are polytheists, this has been written down in the red manuscript, by the Almighty Pen"

(Reference:AbdulHamid- 'Ishragh-e-Khavari, Ma'edeh-e-Asemani, V. 4, P. 140, 141)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The disbelievers will defend all religions in this world except Islam and that tells it all.

No, I have a bone to pick with all the major world religions and even some smaller religions.

 

[Mackerni]

mojtaba: Just about everything you claim Baha'is stand for in that post is false. Baha'is believe all major religions are monotheist and worship the same God. Baha'is also believe the separation of church and state. Baha'is are a collective form of enlightened Islamic people (Baha'u'llah was once a Muslim) who are being prosecuted because they don't call themselves Muslim anymore. The rituals are a little more relaxed, the texts have a different vernacular, but very similar to all the other Abrahamic faiths. Why would there be a conspiracy with Baha'is regarding Americans and the British? Most Americans are still Christian.

 

[raph]

If Ayatullah Khumeini was as you have said, may Allah forgive him. But if he was not as you have said, may Allah forgive you.

Baha'is in Iran are in universities, schools, etc., and enjoy their rights. That is Propaganda of USA and Israel, like the Propaganda of Iran peaceful nulear program( which have proved that is a big lie ).

You are ignorant about the facts.
Ayatullah Khomeini:
I hope you can show the image of Islam as it is. Today governments want to present a repulsive image of Iran to the world. The mass media and other organizations internationally bring up the issue of human rights, claim Bahais have no freedom in Iran or they are imprisoned for Bahaism when they see victory of Iran or when they see the oppression of Iraq against us.
(Source: Sahifeh-ye imam Khomeini Volume 18, page 319)

Ayatullah Khomeini:
However, we tell you that the Tudeh party not because it was the Tudeh Party and the Bahais not because of their belonging to the outlawed Bahai sect were prosecuted by our prosecutors and sentenced to imprisonment. They had problems; the Tudeh party came forward and confessed all their activities and they have a record.The Bahais are not a faith, they are a party, a party that in the past was supported by the British and are at present being supported by the Americans —they too are spies just like them. If they were not spies, then well, there are many other people that have ideological deviations; they are communists, they are other things but our prosecutors do not arrest and imprison them because they are Communists or have ideological deviations.
(Source: Sahifeh-ye imam Khomeini Volume 17, page 427)


Baha'ullah has said that All Shia are Polytheist!(Which is a big Slander, because we are pure Monotheist)

Baha'ullah:

لعمرالله حزب شيعه از مشركين از قلم اعلي در صحيفه حمرا مذكور و مسطور​

"I swear by the age of Allah!!!( Allah has age?! ) the Shias are polytheists, this has been written down in the red manuscript, by the Almighty Pen"

(Reference:AbdulHamid- 'Ishragh-e-Khavari, Ma'edeh-e-Asemani, V. 4, P. 140, 141)

Sry but claiming that Bahais are spys and a political party is nonsense. And my knowledge about the situation in Iran does not come from American propaganda. I met many persian Bahais and all of them fled from persecution. Some got imprisoned, some have relatives who were murdered, some got their possesions taken from the government. Of course you can claim that all of these people were insincere spys. And you can claim that the stories about innocent Bahais who get their rights denied, shops closed and graveyards destroyed are false also, but I find it hardly unlikely that someone could fake such a thing. Also my wife comes from Iran and she experienced the atrocities done by Khomeni first hand. Id rather believe Bahais and my wife then a dictator opium dealer, who orders to rape, murder and torture people.

Why is their no proof that the yaran are spies. If Iran imprisoned people for 20 years, they could at least show some proof and make the human right defenders of the west silent.

As for the verse, it would be nice to have a bit of context there. Also the meaning of polytheist is different in our faith than in Islam. Also Bahaullah wrote that verse, after Shias killed the beloved Bab, thausands of saints, and banished, tortured and imprisoned the Blessed Beauty and His followers. Yes these people are polytheists, because they see their selfs and their Dogmas as a God besides Allah.

 

[George-ananda]

Baha'is also believe the separation of church and state.

This is actually not exactly true. The Baha'i position is more that the Church (Baha'i) will become the state. A Baha'i Theocracy is the world's future. Baha'i's are not to get involved in the politics of the current world's systems but they are building Baha'i institutions that will replace our current governments that are destined to collapse. Sounds amazingly grandiose but I kid you not.

Not many people talk of this or even realize it nowadays as a more benign western face is put on the Baha'i Faith. That said, I still like the Baha'i Faith overall and studied it intensely in the early 1980's.

 

[FearGod]

Imo you can read it both ways. "Those are" is present tense. Also I dont think, that they are good creatures, if they deserve eternall hell. They had to be very bad creatures before death, to deserve eternall fire after death.

The hell doesn't start yet, how it's in the present tense.

 

[mojtaba]

Sry but claiming that Bahais are spys and a political party is nonsense. And my knowledge about the situation in Iran does not come from American propaganda. I met many persian Bahais and all of them fled from persecution. Some got imprisoned, some have relatives who were murdered, some got their possesions taken from the government. Of course you can claim that all of these people were insincere spys. And you can claim that the stories about innocent Bahais who get their rights denied, shops closed and graveyards destroyed are false also, but I find it hardly unlikely that someone could fake such a thing. Also my wife comes from Iran and she experienced the atrocities done by Khomeni first hand. Id rather believe Bahais and my wife then a dictator opium dealer, who orders to rape, murder and torture people.
Why is their no proof that the yaran are spies. If Iran imprisoned people for 20 years, they could at least show some proof and make the human right defenders of the west silent.

And I also know Baha'is who have a normal life in Iran. But rather, when some of them convert to Islam, they are put under presure from the leaders of Bahai party and their family leave them and put them under financial and emotional pressure.
Some questions:
1-Where is Beytul Adl(Central Building of Baha'is)?
2-Why do American only condemn the coduct of Iran's government with Baha'is and do not condemn the killing of numerous Muslims in Israel, Nigeria, Yemen, etc.???
3-Why should Iran's government have a violent conduct with Baha'is only because of their religion which has no benefit for the country, but rather has many disadvantages???
And other questions.

As for the verse, it would be nice to have a bit of context there. Also the meaning of polytheist is different in our faith than in Islam. Also Bahaullah wrote that verse, after Shias killed the beloved Bab, thausands of saints, and banished, tortured and imprisoned the Blessed Beauty and His followers. Yes these people are polytheists, because they see their selfs and their Dogmas as a God besides Allah.

No friend. Beloved! Bab had a violent teachings against Shias and other people of discord.

See this saying about Bab,
Abdul-Baha says:

در يوم ظهور حضرت اعلی منطوق بيان ضرب اعناق و حرق كتب و اوراق و هدم بقاع و قتل عام الّا من آمن و صدّق بود​

"In the day of the appearance of Hadhrat A`la [meaning the Bab], the utterance of Bayan[i.e., the book of Bab] was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bab’s religion] and verified it.”
(Source: Abdul Baha, Makatib, vol. 2, p. 266)
You can download this book from here (Go page 266(ص ۲۶۶)).

 

[Mackerni]

This is actually not exactly true. The Baha'i position is more that the Church (Baha'i) will become the state. A Baha'i Theocracy is the world's future. Baha'i's are not to get involved in the politics of the current world's systems but they are building Baha'i institutions that will replace our current governments that are destined to collapse. Sounds amazingly grandiose but I kid you not.

Not many people talk of this or even realize it nowadays as a more benign western face is put on the Baha'i Faith. That said, I still like the Baha'i Faith overall and studied it intensely in the early 1980's.

Urgh. Why did I join the Baha'is again... Nobody told me this was their plan.

 

[Muffled]

Baha'ullah: Be certain torment for Shias

Are you saying Shias don't believe in Allah?

 

[Muffled]

Baha'ullah was Persian and in Persian culture, these sayings mean such bad meaning. I am Persian so I know the meaning of those statements.

I believe the idea that something is hidden in the language or culture is a smokescreen. You made your statements in English and that is what I responded to. So you will have to do better at explaining why this is so bad. I don't see it.

 

[Unification]

The disbelievers will defend all religions in this world except Islam and that tells it all.

All religions in the world include hateful Islam.

It's not the religions name, or the religion... it is whether or not someone is walking and living the inner way of peace, purity, and goodness towards all.

 

[Unification]

The hell doesn't start yet, how it's in the present tense.

Hell and burning are other words for suffering.