Baltimore police charged in Freddy Gray death

[Monk Of Reason]

Obviously you're impervious to reason or rational thought and prefer to wallow in bias. Good bye.

If not an investigation then what? How else would they have "come upon the truth"?

 

[Skwim]

If not an investigation then what? How else would they have "come upon the truth"?

Investigation by all means. In fact it's mandatory, but not a trial. As I said in post 17, freethinker44's presumption is that "no matter what they may have done or not done a trial is the best way to get to the truth." This is simply not how our justice system works. Freethinker44's presumption is asinine.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Investigation by all means. In fact it's mandatory, but not a trial. As I said in post 17, freethinker44's presumption is that "no matter what they may have done or not done a trial is the best way to get to the truth." This is simply not how our justice system works. Freethinker44's presumption is asinine.

That is true. But for there to have been an arrest at least a preliminary amount of investigation should have been done. The only way for there to have been an external investigation would have been for the police officers themselves to have been charged. Otherwise the jurisdiction would have fallen with their friends and coworkers. Also for there to have been a charge brought to light there must have already been some investigation and evidence lending belief that they are guilty of something. You are right that the trial is not the investigation but the investigation is already underway. I agree that it is at least a good thing that someone externally is investigating the crime rather than the accused coworkers. Having self regulation for a police department is asinine.

 

[Skwim]

That is true. But for there to have been an arrest at least a preliminary amount of investigation should have been done. The only way for there to have been an external investigation would have been for the police officers themselves to have been charged.

Not at all. Often when a public official is under investigation they're put on temporary leave or restricted duty. Not necessarily charged at all.

Also for there to have been a charge brought to light there must have already been some investigation and evidence lending belief that they are guilty of something.

Yup, and the investigation was that of the coroner; although, not the belief "that they are guilty of something," but the possibility they may be.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Not at all. Often when a public official is under investigation they're put on temporary leave or restricted duty. Not necessarily charged at all.

I didn't say they needed to be charged to be investigated. I said that for them to be charged there had to have been some preliminary investigation and evidence.

Yup, and the investigation was that of the coroner; although, not the belief "that they are guilty of something," but the possibility they may be.

Being charged is a big deal. The worst possible thing you can EVER do as a lawyer is charge someone something without having evidence already in the bang to prove it. Because it blows up in your face. It makes the DA look like a fool ect. If they have brought charges up against someone there already is enough evidence that they feel they can get a conviction. In certain cases there is further investigation after a charge is made but usually most charges are after the investigation. Though in many cases like this if it is a police officer the charges will require a new investigating team to come in and look at the evidence again.

 

[Skwim]

I didn't say they needed to be charged to be investigated. I said that for them to be charged there had to have been some preliminary investigation and evidence.

You said:

"The only way for there to have been an external investigation would have been for the police officers themselves to have been charged." If this doesn't mean "they needed to be charged to be investigated." I don't know what does. Invert your two clauses .

FROM
The only way for there to have been an external investigation would have been for the police officers themselves to have been charged

TO
For the police officers themselves to have been charged there to have been an external investigation
​

The two mean the same thing: they needed to be charged to be investigated

 

[Monk Of Reason]

You said:

"The only way for there to have been an external investigation would have been for the police officers themselves to have been charged." If this doesn't mean "they needed to be charged to be investigated." I don't know what does. Invert your two clauses .

FROM
The only way for there to have been an external investigation would have been for the police officers themselves to have been charged

TO
For the police officers themselves to have been charged there to have been an external investigation
​

The two mean the same thing: they needed to be charged to be investigated

On the second one I slipped up on my grammer. It was the end of my shift at work and I was excited to go home. I meant that for the police officers themselves to be charged there WILL HAVE to be an external investigation. There will have had to have been a preliminary investigation of some kind prior to their charge but not prior to the arrest. In a case like this the normal chain of events is that there is a questionable issue, the police officer is either arrested or removed in some way shape or form, an external force investigates the crime (this only has to happen if the officer in question is arrested usually though the policy is different city to city) and then charges are made after an investigation by the external force. I don't know if the external force was already in the investigation or not. But the fact that the police officers are charged narrows the advantage of having his coworkers left him off.

 

[Skwim]

On the second one I slipped up on my grammer. It was the end of my shift at work and I was excited to go home. I meant that for the police officers themselves to be charged there WILL HAVE to be an external investigation. There will have had to have been a preliminary investigation of some kind prior to their charge but not prior to the arrest. In a case like this the normal chain of events is that there is a questionable issue, the police officer is either arrested or removed in some way shape or form, an external force investigates the crime (this only has to happen if the officer in question is arrested usually though the policy is different city to city) and then charges are made after an investigation by the external force. I don't know if the external force was already in the investigation or not. But the fact that the police officers are charged narrows the advantage of having his coworkers left him off.

Understood.

 

[averageJOE]

What was he doing wrong? Nothing, but he took off so the cop assumed he was guilty of something and now he's dead. "Oh, but he fled from the police" BULL. Running from police isn't illegal if the cop doesn't have a reasonable suspicion to detain you, and last I checked making eye contact wasn't a reasonable suspicion.

Actually, this law gave the cops the right to do just that. Illinois v. Wardlow | The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law
That's going to be the defense for why they chased him. There are rules in play of course, like they have to be in a high crime area. And in the Freddie Gray case, I think they were (though I'm not sure).

Now don't jump on me thinking I'm trying to justify his death. I'm just commenting on the fact that this is the law that cops will use to chase someone who just looks at them and runs.

 

[Revoltingest]

Baltimore officers indicted for the death of Freddie Gray - WFSB 3 Connecticut

 

[gsa]

Baltimore officers indicted for the death of Freddie Gray - WFSB 3 Connecticut

When I listened to the conservative AM hate machine rail against this prosecution, they pointed to the lack of a grand jury indictment. I wonder what the basis for their opposition will be now?

That being said, grand juries are easily swayed by prosecutors so it really shouldn't make a difference.

 

[Wirey]

I'm pretty curious as to how this will end.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm pretty curious as to how this will end.

Badly?

 

[Wirey]

Badly?

I don't see an upside for anyone. If they're found not guilty, there will be at least one more riot. If they're found guilty, all you'll hear is "Down with cops," which can't end well.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't see an upside for anyone. If they're found not guilty, there will be at least one more riot. If they're found guilty, all you'll hear is "Down with cops," which can't end well.

Convictions could end well. Sure, sure, there could be rancor initially, but if we're ever to reign in abusive cops, this is a required step.

 

[esmith]

Well one outcome of this isn't exactly the outcome the city was counting on.
Alarming Surge In Murders And Shootings In Baltimore « CBS Baltimore
After Riots, Violent Crime Spikes in Baltimore « CBS DC

However, one can not exactly blame Boston law enforcement for wondering what could happen to them.

 

[Sleeppy]

2nd Degree murder: Intentionally causing the death of another human being.

So the question will be: Did certain officers know that Mr. Gray could/or would die, as a result of their actions?

We'll see.

 

[tytlyf]

Well one outcome of this isn't exactly the outcome the city was counting on.
Alarming Surge In Murders And Shootings In Baltimore « CBS Baltimore
After Riots, Violent Crime Spikes in Baltimore « CBS DC

However, one can not exactly blame Boston law enforcement for wondering what could happen to them.

I don't see how the police (or lack of) has anything to do with the increase in murders.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

You gotta admit, something strange is going on here.

1. According to Google maps, the drive from Freddie Gray's arrest site to the police station takes four minutes. Four. And the same route is a 10-minute walk. Yet it took the police van 45 minutes to arrive. Why?
2. Why did the police van not travel directly south on N Mount Street? Why all the circulating?
3. What exactly went on at the Dolphin & Druid Hill stop? If Gray was in serious medical condition to this point, why was he not immediately rushed to the hospital?
4. This. All of this.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the news.....
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/...-edward-nero-found-not-guilty-on-all-charges/