metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Then make sure there's no book on Trump then.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Banned Books -- at the end of "Banned Books Week"
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
This goes against what I have heard and read from numerous media sources, so can you provide us with a link that shows they all must be wrong?
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
That link said they backed off a bit but never said what they backed off on. What is their policy?
Florida school district orders removal of all books with gay characters before backing off slightly
Charlotte County Schools Superintendent Mark Vianello said removals were needed to conform to a state law backed by Gov. Ron DeSantis that critics have dubbed “Don’t Say Gay.”districtadministration.com
Why can't a 7th grader read a book with a gay character? Why are you insisting on a technical definition of "ban"? A ban doesn't mean the book isn't available in general, it means that it has been removed from a school or public library. Saying "it's not a ban" is ridiculous.
A 7th grader sure can read any book with a gay character, the parents can get it for them in a public library and not all districts in Florida read the law like the one district you linked to. Some still have LGBTQ characters.
My objection is 7th graders reading books with sexually explicit content. This should not be allowed in public schools. Parents can provide that info if they want to.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
Of course. This is a version of Godwin's law.Then make sure there's no book on Trump then.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
You don't think these books are found in public libraries in Florida? Who has said they are banned in the entire state?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I'm talking about school libraries as that's what we've been discussing.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
Ok they are not banned in all school libraries as I have shown.
Orbit
I'm a planet
Sigh. No one said that ALL libraries in the US have banned ALL books. Get a grip. This is disingenuous nitpicking.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
No, I said that not all libraries in Florida's public school system have banned these books. We were not talking about all libraries in the US.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I've read most of those, some in high school English classes. Of course they should not be banned.
I guess the question is how old would be "old enough" for kids to read some of these. And even then I wouldn't ban them, just recommend something like "earliest recommended age".
As an aside, sometimes on RF I feel like 1984 and BNW ought to be required reading with the understanding that they are meant to be DYSTOPIAN
"Oh, no! Little Johnny is foaming at the mouth and thrashing about on the floor! What happened?!"
"He read The Grapes of Wrath a year too early..."
@Clizby Wampuscat, I was reading independently when I was just 3 years old. Many, many words were too hard for me, and that took some effort, but I didn't need anybody to read me stories from the kids books -- I could do it myself, thank you. And I've been doing that ever since. Hell, I found a copy of Lady Chatterly's Love when I was just 11. I didn't understand a lot of what was going on, but I didn't die from it. (I did, however, learn that just reading some words could produce an erection. That didn't kill me, either.)
It didn't take me very long, even as a young kid, to know the difference between fiction and non-fiction. In grade 9, I found I Claudius and Claudius the God in my school library (Robert Graves), and I read them. There was rape, and murder. There was serial naughtiness and orgies. This was really heady stuff. It didn't bowl me over, what a surprise.
Everybody in this modern era seems to underrate what kids are capable of coping with. It's more, far more, than most people think. And all kids are different: some will have a hard time understanding at 12 what others deal with easily at 8. Kids are -- and everybody hates me when I say this -- interested in sex, and will seek out information about it. If they can't find decent information, well, they'll take what they can get -- and that may be a whole lot worse than what they can find in their school or local library!
How would you answer a kid who asks, "did you and Dad have sex to make me?" Do you know how I would answer? I would simply say "yes." If the kid wants to know more, he'll ask. If that answer satisfies him, that'll be the end -- until he thinks of something else. No, kids aren't adults, but honestly answering their questions, satisfying their curiousity, is not going to hurt them -- not in the least, and in fact will make them more confident and informed adults.
Hell, back when Canada and some of the US was covered in Iroquois and Wendat longhouses, kids were right there beside their parents while the parents were making them a brand new baby brother or sister. It did not lead to psychosis, or terror of sex, or turn any of them into rapists, homosexuals or lesbians, or sexual predators. It's the same thing with meat. We eat it, but none of us ever sees how it goes from being a cute baby angora goat pronking in the meadow, to a tasty braised lamb shank with a nice root vegetable polenta. No, before we hid all that stuff away, the kids were there in the yard when the goat was killed -- and they lived through the experience.
It's Thanksgiving in Canada today, and when I was young, the kids were in the yard when the turkey had its head chopped off. They learned where their food came from. And it didn't hurt them.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Congrats on missing the point.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
So little Johnny asked his dad "Where did I come from". His dad thought this is it, the sex talk moment, so he got his prepared speech, diagrams etc. and explained to Johnny where he came from. Johnny said "Wow, Jack down the street said he came from Cleveland".
I agree with some of what you said. The above joke is a reminder to understand what your kids are asking when you talk to them.
I have two adult daughters and a 12 yo son. We have had ongoing sex conversations with our kids some went well and others not so well. But we kept the conversation going and our daughters did come to us (mostly my wife) with questions as they got older. But as parents we had these conversations when we thought it was appropriate which included our morals as well. My son is starting to get interested in girls and we have had some conversations already and we will continue to have them. He is learning about LGBTQ issues and we are guiding him in that. One of my objections is that sexuality has a moral component as well and that can only be taught by the parents and may not be displayed in some books that are available to young people. Our public school systems seem to want to talk about sexuality but not the morals that go along with it. This is one of many reasons my son is homeschooled.
You said yourself each kid can handle different topics at different ages but who gets to decide that age. I think the parents do. Just because some parents don't do that should not mean that I don't get to do that for my kids. I don't see any reason to have sexually explicate books in elementary schools. We should not be teaching sexuality in schools until 5th grade or so in my opinion. Let them be kids.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
So you don't want to explain what I missed?
All but three of them were required reading for me between middle school and high school.It's amusing that three of the titles in the OP were required reading in my American Lit class in high school.
How far we've come as a society.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It would be a total waste of time, and if you can't even see what you "missed", you have my sympathies.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
Ok, this is a typical response of a person that does not want an honest conversation and just wants to insult. Noted.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Then maybe do me a favor and put me on your ignore list.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
why the hostility?