Banned Mormon Cartoon

[Katzpur]

Blatant cartoonization.

Short version of actual LDS beliefs: We are all the Father's children and through Christ's sacrifice, have the potential to be joint-hiers with Christ.

You know, I started out by saying that the video is 90%-95% false. Upon watching it a second time, I'd say it's more like 95%-98% false.

If you're interested in more lengthy explanation: Becoming Like God

That is an excellent article. I always hesitate to post links because I tend to feel like I'm just taking a shortcut rather than answer in my own words. But I couldn't possibly explain the doctrine as eloquently as the article does. Most people probably won't bother reading it since the video posted in the OP is so much more entertaining. But thanks to that link, anyone who genuinely wants to understand our doctrine on this subject really has no excuse for remaining in the dark.

 

[blü 2]

@Katzpur

At random ─ Mosiah Ch 4:

10 And again, believe that ye must repent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in sincerity of heart that he would forgive you; and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them.

11 And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, calling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel.​

If I paraphrase that as;

Be humble and repent your sins, and God will forgive you; and remember God's goodness and stand firm in your faith​

what have I left out?

 

[blü 2]

Equality does not equate godhood

Hmm.

X is God's equal but is distinguished by lacking godhood.

How could we tell whether X lacked godhood or not? In other words, what is godhood?

 

[PruePhillip]

Upon watching it a second time, I'd say it's more like 95%-98% false..

Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament.
HE was the lamb, HE was the priest, WE are the temple of God.
Was it Paul who spoke of the "weak and beggarly elements" some
early Christians were reverting to? Touch not, taste not, observing
holy days, creating a new physical sanctuary etc..
Mormonism - beside its false claim that Jesus returned to the New
World, is that Christ has reverted to the old covenant and its, quote
"beggarly elements."

 

[Shad]

Hmm.

X is God's equal but is distinguished by lacking godhood.

You are defined equality the way you want not by the quote you posted.

How could we tell whether X lacked godhood or not? In other words, what is godhood?

Hence my religion ID. This is up to theists to resolve.

 

[blü 2]

You are defined equality the way you want not by the quote you posted.

The definition there is from John 17, "one with" in the manner that Jesus is "one with" God.

Hence my religion ID. This is up to theists to resolve.

If you ever find out what "godhood" is as a defining quality, grateful if you drop me a note.

 

[Shad]

The definition there is from John 17, "one with" in the manner that Jesus is "one with" God.

This could just be community, connection, absorption into even. You are picking the one you like, nothing more.

 

[blü 2]

This could just be community, connection, absorption into even. You are picking the one you like, nothing more.

I wasn't trying to make any other point than that the words were there.

I have no dog in this fight. I'm just the helpful bystander.

 

[Dragonslayer]

FYI: members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints do 100% believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three different persons in ONE God.

Throughout the years, I've had a bunch of people flat out not listen to me when I tell them that, and instead insist that they know better than I. Usually such persons haven't ever stepped foot in my church or ever bother to listen. Which frankly... if somebody wants to ignore my relationship with Christ and real beliefs, that's not my problem.

I don't mean to come across as ignorant, but there are something like 40,000 religions which lay claim to the Bible. The problem is they don't allow the Bible to be the final authority as God intended His Word to be instructive and informative and authoritarian.

Most of these religions, sects, cults and organisations add their own perverted views to Biblical truth. Christ said, "let every man be a liar and let God be true". He was saying that if anyone contradicts or changes the meaning of scripture that we are to consider them as liars and we should allow the Bible to have the final authority.

As you can appreciate, I'm fully immersed in studying the Bible so I haven't allocated much time to study all the different religions. I would like to know more about them so I can engage and connect with people from all the different religions to share the Gospel with them.

I was born into Roman Catholicism but as I matured and started reading the Bible, I discovered that the Roman Church wasn't teaching Bible doctrine but it was teaching a man made religion which contradicted much of what Christ taught so I left and joined a non denominational Christian Church where Gods Word as we have it in the Bible is the only authority.

I would encourage everyone to compare what their Church teaches to what the Bible teaches and if it doesn't line up with Holy Scripture I would seriously consider leaving and finding a Church that serves God faithfully.

 

[Katzpur]

Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament.
HE was the lamb, HE was the priest, WE are the temple of God.
Was it Paul who spoke of the "weak and beggarly elements" some
early Christians were reverting to? Touch not, taste not, observing
holy days, creating a new physical sanctuary etc..
Mormonism - beside its false claim that Jesus returned to the New
World, is that Christ has reverted to the old covenant and its, quote
"beggarly elements."

Okay, so I don't care whether you believe Jesus visited the New World after His resurrection or not, but why would you say this is a false claim if it can't be proven one way or the other? Two-thirds of the people in the world today are not Christians. They would say that your belief that a man named Jesus was resurrected after three days in a tomb is "a false claim." You can't prove it's not, but you accept it on faith, as do I. And you totally lost me with the bit about "weak and beggarly elements." Does this have something to do with the video we're talking about?

 

[Katzpur]

I don't mean to come across as ignorant, but there are something like 40,000 religions which lay claim to the Bible. The problem is they don't allow the Bible to be the final authority as God intended His Word to be instructive and informative and authoritarian.

Well, you're obviously not completely ignorant as you have recognized the fact that there are over 40,000 different denominations within Christianity. What you have apparently read into the Bible is that it ever declares itself to be "the final authority." Yes, it's most definitely instructive and informative, but isn't God himself the only real "authority"? The Bible doesn't even claim to be "complete" and it couldn't possibly be "inerrant" -- not so long as human hands are involved in its compilation, transcription, translation and preservation. And why would God suddenly just stop talking to us after He sent His Only Begotten Son to suffer and die for us? He must have known that 40,000 different ways of looking at the scriptures would emerge without His continued direction.

Most of these religions, sects, cults and organisations add their own perverted views to Biblical truth. Christ said, "let every man be a liar and let God be true". He was saying that if anyone contradicts or changes the meaning of scripture that we are to consider them as liars and we should allow the Bible to have the final authority.

You're assuming that any interpretation of the Bible that you don't see eye-to-eye with is the result of man's intentionally tampering with scripture. Why not give people the benefit of the doubt and recognize that most of us are just doing the best we can to understand what the Bible is saying, when sometimes it's really not all that clear.

As you can appreciate, I'm fully immersed in studying the Bible so I haven't allocated much time to study all the different religions. I would like to know more about them so I can engage and connect with people from all the different religions to share the Gospel with them.

If that's the case, I would suggest that you start by apologizing for this statement:

It's hard to resist calling Mormons Morons, it's hard to believe that people who actually have a brain would fall for such an outrageous fantasy. They prove that man will believe anything if the sales tactic is deceptive enough.

If you truly want to know more about different religions, wouldn't it make more sense to actually ask their adherents what they believe, instead of trusting what you hear on some malicious video made by someone who obviously detests them? (By the way, I definitely don't hold grudges, so if you'd like to have a fresh start at learning about Mormonism, I, for one, would be willing to overlook your earlier comments.)

I was born into Roman Catholicism but as I matured and started reading the Bible, I discovered that the Roman Church wasn't teaching Bible doctrine but it was teaching a man made religion which contradicted much of what Christ taught so I left and joined a non denominational Christian Church where Gods Word as we have it in the Bible is the only authority.

Once again, the Bible is a book. It contains God's word, but it is not the "only authority." And if God wants to say more, who are we to tell Him we've read the book and don't care to hear from Him any more.

I would encourage everyone to compare what their Church teaches to what the Bible teaches and if it doesn't line up with Holy Scripture I would seriously consider leaving and finding a Church that serves God faithfully.

People in a lot of churches "serve God faithfully," even if they may do so differently than you. I would say that rather than trying to sort things out on one's own, the most reliable way to find truth is to listen to what the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is telling you to believe.

 

[Katzpur]

@Katzpur

At random ─ Mosiah Ch 4:

10 And again, believe that ye must repent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in sincerity of heart that he would forgive you; and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them.

11 And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, calling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel.​

If I paraphrase that as;

Be humble and repent your sins, and God will forgive you; and remember God's goodness and stand firm in your faith​

what have I left out?

It's not what you left out. It's that you selected what you admit were two "random" verses and, without any thought to their context or the audience to whom they were addressed, concluded that the same thing could have been stated more concisely. And you're right; it could have been. These words were part of a sermon that a very good man, King Benjamin, gave to his subjects shortly before he died. He knew he was getting old and this would be the last time he would likely be able to talk to them. I actually love his sermon; it's one of my favorite parts of The Book of Mormon. But it was intended to be what most good sermons are -- inspiring because of its language. Take any presidential innaugural address. John F. Kennedy's is a perfect example. Yes, he could have paraphrased his own words in half dozen sentences but he chose not to. Look at all of the memorable speeches and written documents made throughout history. Any one of them could have been pared down to a few sentences if the sole point was to state the message a succinctly as possible.

The Book of Mormon is quite varied from one chapter to the next because the writers lived over a period of over 1000 years and had different styles. Some of the book is written as a straightforward narrative, saying this happened and then this happened and then this happened. Other parts have literary value in their construction alone. I don't really care if you find The Book of Mormon to be boring, but your example is flawed in many respects.

 

[Jane.Doe]

there are something like 40,000 religions which lay claim to the Bible.

Of course. I have studied and attended services at dozens of them (I'm a nerd that way ).

As you can appreciate, I'm fully immersed in studying the Bible so I haven't allocated much time to study all the different religions. I would like to know more about them so I can engage and connect with people from all the different religions to share the Gospel with them.

I can indeed appreciate wanting to studying scripture-- such is a noble aspiration.
But RF is an interfaith venue, and there are many different folks here, and the goal is to have interfaith discussions. If you are just interested in studying your own views, this forum is probably not the best place for you. And the random insults you were lobbying off earlier did indeed come across as ignorant.

I would encourage everyone to compare what their Church teaches to what the Bible teaches and if it doesn't line up with Holy Scripture I would seriously consider leaving and finding a Church that serves God faithfully.

I have indeed done that

 

[blü 2]

It's not what you left out. It's that you selected what you admit were two "random" verses and, without any thought to their context or the audience to whom they were addressed.

Even if you're right that it was an unfortunate example, as far as I can see by multiple random sampling, prolixity and awkwardness are features of the style throughout. Two more random grabs:

Alma 34

11 Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay. [43 words]

No one can choose to die in order to atone for the sins of another. Our law will not punish an innocent person for the crimes of another. [28 words]​

12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world. [32]

But by our law the punishment for murder is death. Therefore only an infinite atonement can atone for the sins of the world. [23]​

[Incidentally, the text contradicts itself as written. The first verse says you can't atone for the sins of another. The second says you can if the atonement is big enough.]​

Jacob 5:

34 And the servant said unto his master: Behold, because thou didst graft in the branches of the wild olive tree they have nourished the roots, that they are alive and they have not perished; wherefore thou beholdest that they are yet good.[42]

The servant said to his master, You grafted in the branches of the wild olive tree and they have nourished the roots. The tree has survived, as you can see.[30].​

35 And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard said unto his servant: The tree profiteth me nothing, and the roots thereof profit me nothing so long as it shall bring forth evil fruit. [36]

The owner of the vineyard replied, Neither the tree nor its roots are of use to me if the fruit is bad. [22]​

Total:153/ 103, a saving of close to a third. And I dare to suggest rather clearer.

 

[Shad]

I wasn't trying to make any other point than that the words were there.

Except for the word you actually were talking about....

 

[dianaiad]

.

I know some of what is said here is true of the faith, but is all of it pretty much on point?

If not, what has it got wrong?

.

It's been awhile since I've seen this bit of wonderment.

I honestly don't see a single thing it got right. (shrug)

Even when it came close, it was so twisted out of shape....

But hey. The very first sentence set the 'stage,' so to speak.

Silliest thing I've seen in a very long time, frankly.

 

[dianaiad]

Like I said, so much of it was truth mixed with error that almost no complete sentence in the video was accurate. If there is a specific sentence in the video that you can quote verbatim, I'll do my best to explain what part of it is accurate and what part of it is intended to be misleading. Or if it would be easier for you, take a segment that is no longer than 30 seconds, give me the starting and ending times of that segment on the video and I'll just state how our actual belief differs from the way it was stated in the video.

I just finished watching that. I have to correct you. I don't think that there IS a complete sentence in that video that is accurate.

..........and some of it?

Whew...I haven't heard some of that stuff in YEARS.

 

[Skwim]

It's been awhile since I've seen this bit of wonderment.

I honestly don't see a single thing it got right. (shrug)

How about the "star" Kolob? And that Adam and Eve were formerly heavenly beings (angels or archangels) who were sent to earth to establish the human race. Aren't those correct?

.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Well, you're obviously not completely ignorant as you have recognized the fact that there are over 40,000 different denominations within Christianity. What you have apparently read into the Bible is that it ever declares itself to be "the final authority." Yes, it's most definitely instructive and informative, but isn't God himself the only real "authority"? The Bible doesn't even claim to be "complete" and it couldn't possibly be "inerrant" -- not so long as human hands are involved in its compilation, transcription, translation and preservation. And why would God suddenly just stop talking to us after He sent His Only Begotten Son to suffer and die for us? He must have known that 40,000 different ways of looking at the scriptures would emerge without His continued direction.

You're assuming that any interpretation of the Bible that you don't see eye-to-eye with is the result of man's intentionally tampering with scripture. Why not give people the benefit of the doubt and recognize that most of us are just doing the best we can to understand what the Bible is saying, when sometimes it's really not all that clear.



If that's the case, I would suggest that you start by apologizing for this statement:



If you truly want to know more about different religions, wouldn't it make more sense to actually ask their adherents what they believe, instead of trusting what you hear on some malicious video made by someone who obviously detests them? (By the way, I definitely don't hold grudges, so if you'd like to have a fresh start at learning about Mormonism, I, for one, would be willing to overlook your earlier comments.)

Once again, the Bible is a book. It contains God's word, but it is not the "only authority." And if God wants to say more, who are we to tell Him we've read the book and don't care to hear from Him any more.

People in a lot of churches "serve God faithfully," even if they may do so differently than you. I would say that rather than trying to sort things out on one's own, the most reliable way to find truth is to listen to what the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is telling you to believe.

The only part of your reply I agree with is the last paragraph, "listen to what the Holy Spirit is telling you to believe", but you haven't understood what I was trying to say earlier.

I believe that the Holy Bible is God perfect inerrant Word, given to His elect people as a gift. Yes men wrote the Bible but God told them what to write so they didn't even know the meaning of what they were writing in many cases. They were simply recording what God was instructing them to write.

I believe God has said everything He wanted to say and the canon of scripture was completed and sealed with the last Words of Jesus to the apostle John. His last Words were that if anyone adds or takes away a single Word from His completed message that they would suffer eternal torment in hell fire.

You can't even fully process what God has already given us, let alone saying there could be more. It's actually sinful to suggest that extra revelation or communication exists apart from the completed canon of Holy Scripture as we have it.

Gods Word is the same today as it was 2000 years ago, it has been speaking the same message to every generation down the centuries and it will continue to speak the same message to every coming generation until Christ returns to judge the whole world and all those who ever lived will be raised to be judged.

Gods Word is alive and it';s the most powerful thing in the universe. It has the power to move mountains, so you must give it the utmost respect and obedience and fear. You must rebuke anyone who comes along and tries to add a single word to His completed Word. You must rebuke anyone as a false prophet (we stoned false prophets and we should still do it) who comes and claims that they heard extra revelation from God.

So be very careful who you believe, let every man be a liar and let God be true or you will suffer condemnation and damnation.

 

[SoyLeche]

How about the "star" Kolob? And that Adam and Eve were formerly heavenly beings (angels or archangels) who were sent to earth to establish the human race. Aren't those correct?

.

Kolob is described by God as being “near unto” Him. Aside from that, we don’t know (or really care) much about it.

Adam and Eve, like the rest of us, were premortal beings. The video says Elohim = Adam. That is completely false. Adam was Michael, for what it’s worth.