Banning ‘Woke’ Words in State Documents, Arkansas Governor Signs Executive Order

[icehorse]

I've never seen anyone's "parts" in a women's washroom in my entire 43 years on this planet.
We have separate stalls with doors on them and women don't tend to walk around naked in public restrooms, from my experience, anyway.

Well then. you have something to look forward to.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Did you actually read the "hard data" or are you just parroting here, because parroting is what people following dogma do.

No, what people following dogma do is ignore facts that are contra-indicative of their beliefs, or find arbitrary reasons to dismiss it. Which is what you are doing. You're alleging an issue without evidence, and when provided the evidence you just dismiss it. That's dogmatism.

You're right, it's possible that under the current system trans people are benefiting in this zero sum game. Although I question whether the bad feelings they're generating are netting out well for them. But it's still a zero sum game

Facts show that making spaces trans inclusive lead to less suicides and do not coincide with an increase in abuse of women's spaces (but DO coincide with a decrease in abuse of trans people).

This news SHOULD make you happy. If you genuinely care about women being safe, then the fact that trans-inclusive laws don't endanger women should be a cause for celebration; even if you do have other reservations. But, strangely, you seem insistent that, regardless of evidence, there ought to be fear. Almost as if women actually being safe isn't really your concern.

 

[Soandso]

Just roughly speaking - how would you propose doing the math on that? Like, how many assaults on women due to men entering safe spaces unchecked is okay in your mind?

Yikes. That's a loaded question fallacy. When did you stop beating your wife?

I'm not interested in playing mind games. I'm interested in honest conversation

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Don't you think that law abiding citizens look out for each other? Don't people call 911 on behalf of others? No "guards" are necessary. What's necessary is that seeing a man enter a woman's safe space sets off alarms in us.

Except you'd never be able to identify them as a man, because - to you - a trans man should be required to use a women's restroom. So, what should happen then? There have been many cases of trans people being attacked and beaten for using the restrooms they are forced to use by law.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Well then. you have something to look forward to.

"You should all listen to women; their concerns are valid."
"I am a woman and I have no concerns."
"WELL YOU SHOULD!"

 

[icehorse]

Let's ignore for a moment that you have yet to provide a shred of evidence that trans-inclusive laws lead to an increase in abuse (and that we have compelling evidence to the contrary) and instead engage in an argument by analogy:

How many assaults do you need to see? How are you doing your math here?

Do you believe a non-zero number of homosexuals are paedophiles?

If yes, then do you also agree that allowing homosexuals to be teachers therefore statistically increases the likelihood of children being exposed to paedophiles?

If yes, then do you believe we should ban homosexuals from becoming teachers?

I fail to see how this analogy is applicable?

And ONE MORE TIME - this has nothing to do with what trans people are like. This has to do with making life easier for men who assault women.

 

[icehorse]

Except you'd never be able to identify them as a man, because - to you - a trans man should be required to use a women's restroom. So, what should happen then? There have been many cases of trans people being attacked and beaten for using the restrooms they are forced to use by law.

We need a better solution for trans people - I think we've agreed on that point.

 

[icehorse]

"You should all listen to women; their concerns are valid."
"I am a woman and I have no concerns."
"WELL YOU SHOULD!"

hahaha - of course, let's use a few individual's lived experience dictate public policy... oh wait, that's exactly what the woke prescribe!

 

[F1fan]

Don't you think that law abiding citizens look out for each other?

You’re not looking out for law abiding trans people. You’re lumping them in with perverts.

Don't people call 911 on behalf of others?

If a crime is committed. You’re trying to classify trans people as criminals because of a few perverts who exploited liberal laws.

No "guards" are necessary. What's necessary is that seeing a man enter a woman's safe space sets off alarms in us.

This is your black and white thinking. Do you really believe this attitude keeps men from entering women’s bathrooms and locker rooms? Men can’t dress up like a woman and sneak in? You’re seriously biased against trans people and assume it’ll solve the problem of perverts. You say nothing about the actual problem, perverts. What protects women from perverts?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

How many assaults do you need to see? How are you doing your math here?

Provide evidence, please. Not scaremongering. I like facts, not dogmatism.

I fail to see how this analogy is applicable?

The logic you are using is identical. A non-zero number of trans people (or people claiming to be trans) are abusers, therefore we should prevent trans people from entering certain spaces.

I believe using broad social prescriptions to tar entire groups of people is morally wrong. If someone abuses trans-inclusive laws to abuse or assault women, they should be punished. Not all trans people. And we certainly shouldn't let the possibility of a system being abused deter us from from forming these policies.

And ONE MORE TIME - this has nothing to do with what trans people are like. This has to do with making life easier for men who assault women.

Then congratulations: it doesn't. Can we move on, now?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

We need a better solution for trans people - I think we've agreed on that point.

How about just letting them use the restroom in peace?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

hahaha - of course, let's use a few individual's lived experience dictate public policy... oh wait, that's exactly what the woke prescribe!

So, when you "speak to women" its genuine and valid and worth mentioning. But when women disagree with you, we should ignore their point of view as non-representative.

Feminism.

Also, aren't you the one who posts individual instances of people abusing trans-inclusive policies to support your argument in favour of dictating public policy? So, individual experiences don't count... unless they're convenient to your position?

 

[icehorse]

I showed you the data. You waved it away.

I looked carefully at your link, did you?

This was one study that happened in a very BLUE state. As I'm sure you know, there has been a serious replication crisis in science recently. It's now almost always the case that meta studies are necessary to make useful determinations.

 

[icehorse]

How about just letting them use the restroom in peace?

zero sum

 

[ImmortalFlame]

zero sum

I've already debunked that argument. Trans people gain and facts show that women don't lose.

Use facts, not fallacies, please.

 

[icehorse]

So, when you "speak to women" its genuine and valid and worth mentioning. But when women disagree with you, we should ignore their point of view as non-representative.

Feminism.

one of your allies posted stats on a much broader poll.

 

[icehorse]

I've already debunked that argument. Trans people gain and facts show that women don't lose.

Use facts, not fallacies, please.

haha - you have? I must have missed that

 

[ImmortalFlame]

one of your allies posted stats on a much broader poll.

The point is that you ignore women's voices when it suits you, and raise them up when they agree with you. You're not a paragon of feminism.

 

[fantome profane]

Just roughly speaking - how would you propose doing the math on that? Like, how many assaults on women due to men entering safe spaces unchecked is okay in your mind?

You really should read his post again. It was simple but brilliant. And it doesn't say anything about math, nor does he say any assaults on women are acceptable.

Assaults on trans women are not acceptable, assaults on cis women are not acceptable.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

haha - you have? I must have missed that

Facts, please.