Banning ‘Woke’ Words in State Documents, Arkansas Governor Signs Executive Order

[icehorse]

Not when using them arbitrarily to remove them from other categories. A person with no arms still belongs in the category of "person who has no arms".

From what category do you think they might be removed?

 

[icehorse]

We've understood gender as a social category for decades.

You are conflating gender with sex. They are two very different concepts.

 

[Revoltingest]

I suggest you stick to the point

I do.

- and stop with your sneaky, trying-to-get-in-thru-the-side-door insults.

My advice is sincere....but blunt.

I suggest that YOU try to empathize with women who have every right to be spared the sight of male genetalia when they're in spaces designed to be safe and private for women.

I don't do empathy.
I prefer reasoning from my values & reality.
This leads me to find bogus your claim that women's
eyes are continually threatened by the dingus.
You tilt at windmills.

 

[icehorse]

Just understand that "trans woman" is under the umbrella of "woman".

I'm okay if you want to say that trans woman is under the umbrella of feminine, a gender term.

 

[icehorse]

I wonder if he's considered that forcing a trans woman
to use the men's lavatory would have a risk of assault?

and here we go, the same tired strawman.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's still rare, but it is happening - you ought to broaden your information gathering process a bit.

So, once you see that it IS happening (and no, I'm not your news source), then you'll probably say - "well, it's rare, it's okay if it only happens a little".

So then my question will be to you: What's your cutoff point? At what point does it become too frequent?

I've not quantified problems lacking significance.
How would you plan to address your claimed
problem, & what consequences do you envision?

 

[icehorse]

I've heard from fundies.

You seem to be under the impression that you can fit people into categories like "left" and "right", quaint.

 

[Revoltingest]

and here we go, the same tired strawman.

You've not offered any plans that I've seen.
It's reasonable to infer that if you want to
prevent trans women from using women's
lavatories, you'd have them using men's rooms.
After all...you do call trans women "men".

 

[Revoltingest]

You seem to be under the impression that you can fit people into categories like "left" and "right", quaint.

You seem to say little about the issues,
but much about the posters here.
This bespeaks weakness on issues.

 

[icehorse]

Some women are born without them:

See: Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) Syndrome

"Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser syndrome (MRKH syndrome) is a rare congenital disorder that can affect women and people assigned female at birth (AFAB). It’s a condition that causes your vagina and uterus to be missing or underformed. In most cases, your ovaries and fallopian tubes function normally, and your external genitals are unaffected. This means you’ll have a lower vagina, a vaginal opening, labia (lips of your vagina), a clitoris and pubic hair. Your urethra is not affected by MRKH, so you can pee normally. In certain types of MRKH syndrome, organs like your kidneys and spine may also not form properly.

People typically discover they have MRKH syndrome during their teen years when they never have a menstrual period. This is because they don’t have a fully formed uterus and vagina. Other times, sexual intercourse is painful or impossible due to your vaginal canal being short and narrow.

Having an underdeveloped or missing uterus and vagina makes carrying a pregnancy impossible without medical help. However, if you have functioning ovaries and produce eggs, options like IVF (in vitro fertilization) and surrogacy may be an option. Talk to your healthcare providers about your desire for children so they can work with you on your options."

Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser Syndrome: Overview

Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser syndrome (MRKH syndrome) is a congenital condition that causes a person to be born without a vagina or uterus.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Biology can be messy.

We do not throw away categories because of disorders or mutations.

 

[icehorse]

You seem to say little about the issues,
but much about the posters here.
This bespeaks weakness.

I will reiterate my stance - which by the way I've stated many, many times on this forum. But since you appear to have memory problems:

- sex and gender are two separate ideas that we must not conflate
- there are only two sexes
- a transwoman is usually feminine, but he is not a woman
- transwoman should not be allowed to use women's safe spaces

Is there anything above that you haven't heard me say many times?

 

[icehorse]

I don't do empathy.
I prefer reasoning from my values & reality.
This leads me to find bogus your claim that women's
eyes are continually threatened by the dingus.

Then it's reasonable to infer that you do NOT value women's rights.

That's actually not a surprise, much of what you say is consistent with that inference.

 

[Revoltingest]

I will reiterate my stance - which by the way I've stated many, many times on this forum. But since you appear to have memory problems:

I admit to that.
RF is a busy place for me.

- sex and gender are two separate ideas that we must not conflate
- there are only two sexes
- a transwoman is usually feminine, but he is not a woman
- transwoman should not be allowed to use women's safe spaces

Is there anything above that you haven't heard me say many times?

I've seen you post those before, & remember them.
I disagree with your premises.
If you'd answer my questions about what plans you
have to implement your beliefs as public policy,
I wouldn't keep asking.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And yet you call them women anyway.

I call people whatever they ask to be called.

I don't think the exceptions and genetic syndroms / deformities / anomalies change the overall facts.
In this case, it's safe to say that something went wrong.
Why would we define the general facts in terms of the exceptions where things go "wrong"?

Sure they do. They make the obvious point that biology is messy and we don't all fall into neat little categories all the time.

Indeed. For example. Humans have 46 chromosomes. This is a general fact.
Someone with down syndrom however has 47. That doesn't make them non-human. Nore should we alter the general facts regarding chromosomes in humans due to the genetic anomaly of down syndrom.

Yep, they're still human. Even though they may not fit neatly into our little categories.

 

[Revoltingest]

Then it's reasonable to infer that you do NOT value women's rights.

You should infer that I value their rights,
but that I don't believe they're being
violated by cis & tans women sharing
lavatories.

That's actually not a surprise, much of what you say is consistent with that inference.

You complain of straw men, but
you sure do love building them
in the TERF style.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Tell that to women in sports. This sort of self-centered, virtue signalling response is really beyond the pale.

"Those women, who do they think they are!" - ugh, you should be ashamed of yourself.

If that's our biggest problem when it comes to trans people, then I think we'll be able to figure it out. Just like we've done with all sports for many, many years now. It's not like, some kind of end-of-the-world problem or anything.

 

[SkepticThinker]

We do not throw away categories because of disorders or mutations.

That's right, we don't. Perhaps you understand the point then.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If that's our biggest problem when it comes to trans people, then I think we'll be able to figure it out. Just like we've done with all sports for many, many years now. It's not like, some kind of end-of-the-world problem or anything.

I'd say the bigger problem is people speaking with certainty when it's as clear as day and night they don't know dicks from dildos about the subject.

 

[icehorse]

If you'd answer my questions about what plans you
have to implement your beliefs as public policy,
I wouldn't keep asking.

I think separate, unisex restrooms would be a good idea.

But here's the thing, out in the big wide world, it's usually not necessary to have a solution before criticizing an idea.

 

[icehorse]

If that's our biggest problem when it comes to trans people, then I think we'll be able to figure it out. Just like we've done with all sports for many, many years now. It's not like, some kind of end-of-the-world problem or anything.

Another misogynistic voice heard from, thank you for your virtue signalling opinion.