IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Well, I'm Jewish so I'm sure you realize that I don't accept the New Testament, just as I don't accept the Quran or the Vedas.
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Baptism in Christianity
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
Five Solas
Active Member
Hi,
What you say is all true but is not directly related to baptism.
As an outward sign of God's covenant, believing parents, who were already inside the covenant, brought their baby boys for circumcision eight days after birth. That was a sign of their first entry amongst the Covenant people of God.
However, God later indicated that the outward sign of circumcision would later change when He declared through the prophet Ezekiel:
“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. You will be my people, and I will be your God.” (Ez. 36:25-28).
Every covenant in the Bible includes children (Gen 1:28; 2:9, 17; 9:9; 17:10; Deut 5:6-21; 6:4-7; 2 Sam 7:12-16; Acts 2:38-39; Eph 6:1-4). Every biblical covenant requires the believing parent(s) to uphold God’s covenant through an obedient life to the Lord and to teach their children to do the same.
The new sign would be that of cleansing by the sprinkling of water.
This is what Peter preached in Jerusalem: “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself” (Acts 2:38-39). The new covenant follows the same identical structure of: “Command–sign–promises–responsibilities”.
Five Solas
Active Member
Like what?
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Fool I hope all is well...
Baptism makes us God' children!
Matt 12
"Jesus pointed to his disciples and said, "Here are my brothers"! .... IF....
Fool if Jesus is your brother, then God would be your father! Disciples are made by baptism!
Matt 28
The Great Commission
"Make disciples of all nations BAPTIZING"!
Jesus commissioned his Church to make disciples... "Jesus is the brother of the Disciple"! Disciples are "IN" God' family.
1 John 3 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME Sins are washed away by Baptism! The Blood of Jesus saves us IF we drink it! Only the brothers of Jesus can drink his blood! The Apostles "DRANK" the Blood of Jesus!
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
everything is already god's because is the creator, the father of all
being baptized makes you aware of what already is, not what might be possible
our father doesn't require a baptism. it only requires a recognition of the hallowed named mentioned in the same prayer.
malachi 2:10
acts 17:28
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME Christians drink the blood of Jesus, they eat his flesh!! Jews are NOT Christians!
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
The Apostles are Christians.
The Apostle Drank the Blood of Jesus they ate his flesh!
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
You cannot sin against a SYMBOL!
You CONDEMN yourself if you reject the flesh and blood!
Yes, Jesus is a figurative door..... He made it very clear... His flesh is REAL FOOD!
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
Christians have ALWAYS eaten the flesh of Jesus! 1700 years after Jesus the first de-Formers ate the flesh of Jesus! It was the children of the de-formers that rejected the words of Jesus as being symbolic!
Ignatius of Antioch 110 A.D.
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ . . . and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
“For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Irenaeus
“If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?” (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Fool So you say....
Christians have always believed Baptism makes us God' children!
Baptism washes away sins!
Mark 1:4
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Luke 3:3
He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Fool If you have sins, you cannot get into heaven!
Baptism ADDS us the risen resurrected body of Jesus
Fool If you are "IN Jesus" then you are God' child! 3000 were "ADDED to Jesus' body by baptism!
Acts 2:40
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Right...
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel.
Immanuel= God with us!
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
US=Plural... More than one!
Elizabeth is a Jew she has ONE God!
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
this in no way addresses the baptism of jesus
proverb 10:12 love is the only thing that washes away all sins. with love all things are possible. without love is sin.
John 5:43
this is a statement by you that in no way is currently or has ever been held by "all" christians. your ego is showing
proverb 10:12 love is the only thing that washes away all sins. with love all things are possible. without love is sin.
john said jesus' baptism was greater. address the greater baptism and answer the question
what is the ineffable name that self is baptized into? it isn't jesus or christ.
John 5:43
there is no adding. there is just the recognition of the obvious because of misunderstanding, spiritual/mental blindness
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Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Fool Christians have always believed Baptism makes us God' children!
Christians baptized to "ADD" people to God' holy body!
3000 people were ADDED to the risen Body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost! The Father has only "ONE" (1) son Jesus! To be called "God' Child" you MUST be IN Jesus!
Christians have always believed Baptism saves!
Hermas
“‘I have heard, sir,’ said I [to the Shepherd], ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’” (The Shepherd 4:3:1–2 [A.D. 80]).
Justin Martyr
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
Tertullian
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).
“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).
“We have, indeed, a second [baptismal] font which is one with the former [water baptism]: namely, that of blood, of which the Lord says: ‘I am to be baptized with a baptism’ [Luke 12:50], when he had already been baptized. He had come through water and blood, as John wrote [1 John 5:6], so that he might be baptized with water and glorified with blood. . . . This is the baptism which replaces that of the fountain, when it has not been received” (ibid., 16).
Hippolytus
“[P]erhaps someone will ask, ‘What does it conduce unto piety to be baptized?’ In the first place, that you may do what has seemed good to God; in the next place, being born again by water unto God so that you change your first birth, which was from concupiscence, and are able to attain salvation, which would otherwise be impossible. For thus the [prophet] has sworn to us: ‘Amen, I say to you, unless you are born again with living water, into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’” (Homilies11:26 [A.D. 217]).
Origen
“It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism” (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).
Cyprian of Carthage
“[T]he baptism of public witness and of blood cannot profit a heretic unto salvation, because there is no salvation outside the Church.” (Letters 72[73]:21 [A.D. 253]).
“[Catechumens who suffer martyrdom] are not deprived of the sacrament of baptism. Rather, they are baptized with the most glorious and greatest baptism of blood, concerning which the Lord said that he had another baptism with which he himself was to be baptized [Luke 12:50]” (ibid., 72[73]:22).
Cyril of Jerusalem [A.D. 350]
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who even without water will receive the kingdom. . . . For the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism, saying, ‘Can you drink the cup which I drink and be baptized with the baptism with which I am to be baptized [Mark 10:38]?’” (Catechetical Lectures 3:10 [A.D. 350]).
etc
Fool Christians have ALWAYS taught Baptism saves! The De-Formation was the start of rejecting Christian beliefs!
Christians baptized to "ADD" people to God' holy body!
3000 people were ADDED to the risen Body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost! The Father has only "ONE" (1) son Jesus! To be called "God' Child" you MUST be IN Jesus!
Christians have always believed Baptism saves!
Hermas
“‘I have heard, sir,’ said I [to the Shepherd], ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’” (The Shepherd 4:3:1–2 [A.D. 80]).
Justin Martyr
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
Tertullian
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).
“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).
“We have, indeed, a second [baptismal] font which is one with the former [water baptism]: namely, that of blood, of which the Lord says: ‘I am to be baptized with a baptism’ [Luke 12:50], when he had already been baptized. He had come through water and blood, as John wrote [1 John 5:6], so that he might be baptized with water and glorified with blood. . . . This is the baptism which replaces that of the fountain, when it has not been received” (ibid., 16).
Hippolytus
“[P]erhaps someone will ask, ‘What does it conduce unto piety to be baptized?’ In the first place, that you may do what has seemed good to God; in the next place, being born again by water unto God so that you change your first birth, which was from concupiscence, and are able to attain salvation, which would otherwise be impossible. For thus the [prophet] has sworn to us: ‘Amen, I say to you, unless you are born again with living water, into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’” (Homilies11:26 [A.D. 217]).
Origen
“It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism” (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).
Cyprian of Carthage
“[T]he baptism of public witness and of blood cannot profit a heretic unto salvation, because there is no salvation outside the Church.” (Letters 72[73]:21 [A.D. 253]).
“[Catechumens who suffer martyrdom] are not deprived of the sacrament of baptism. Rather, they are baptized with the most glorious and greatest baptism of blood, concerning which the Lord said that he had another baptism with which he himself was to be baptized [Luke 12:50]” (ibid., 72[73]:22).
Cyril of Jerusalem [A.D. 350]
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who even without water will receive the kingdom. . . . For the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism, saying, ‘Can you drink the cup which I drink and be baptized with the baptism with which I am to be baptized [Mark 10:38]?’” (Catechetical Lectures 3:10 [A.D. 350]).
etc
Fool Christians have ALWAYS taught Baptism saves! The De-Formation was the start of rejecting Christian beliefs!
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes, Isaiah 7:14 is about King Hezekiah. Your translation is very bad. the wrod is young woman, not virgin, and the text is in past tense, not future. Here is a better translation:
Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.
My son's name is Emanuel. It doesn't make him either God or messiah.
This is simply God talking to the heavenly court.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 I hope all is well... I explain it the only way I know... (FYI)
I point out this...Adam was formed by God perfectly! God does all things perfect otherwise he would not be God! Creation was Perfect! THIS....
IndigoChild5559 this perfect man "Adam" made a free choice. He chose to sin he chose to disobey God; thus, sin entered God' perfect creation! Creation was corrupted, all peoples born from then onward are formed corrupted. You cannot form something perfectly from using corrupted material! Thus, all peoples are born imperfect because all are decedents of corrupted Adam the first man! We needed to correct the error of Adam so we could enter Paradise! BUT.....
IndigoChild5559 but man was stuck between a rock and a hard spot... we needed another perfect man to replace Adam, all are born imperfect! That is until God was born as man... Only God is perfect, God himself came to us to correct the problem; he was Born a man so he could die as a Perfect man! The wage of sin is death... Jesus died without any sin; death could not hold Jesus in the grave he rose out of the grave never ever to die a second time... No one can die twice! You cannot even kill a stinking mangy dog twice! To each is allotted one (1) death!
Proverbs 10:16
The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Christians are Baptized (Immersed) into the risen never to die body of Jesus! Jesus is God. The second person of the trinity! Jesus cured the sick, restored the sight to the blind, he cured the cripple he even raised the dead! Jesus rose into heaven now sitting at the right hand of God (His Father) to judge the living & the dead!
I do not want to offend just inform you of Christian belief and our New Testament!
the day of pentecost doesn't say anything about water baptism. doesn't say they were baptized in water. fyi you can be baptized/immersed in things that aren't water
G4157 - pnoē - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Please do not preach at me. I don't mind having a conversation about religion with you, but I'm not in your church and you are not my pastor. Please, this was just rude. I'm not interested in the slightest to hear your sermons.
I only contribute more mystery to the conversation by contributing this passage from Ephesians chapter 4 verses 4-6:
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Fool I hope all is going well...
I point out: The Church (The Bride) ALWAYS uses water to Immerse a person into Christ! ALWAYS!
The Early Church fathers tell you they always use water! Christians have ALWAYS used water! Jesus (God) sends the Gift... The Groom sends the Gift the Bride Re-Forms us with the use of water!
The "Bride" with- The Water washes away the sins!
The "Groom" sends the Gift the "Holy Spirit!" >>>>> Water & Spirit Not spirit alone Not water alone!
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
The people of Moses were saved by the Water of the Red Sea... The Water washed away Pharos Army!
The Children of God are saved by the Waters of Baptism... The water washes away the sin!
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
Fool Christians believe the scriptures "The Words of God"! Word for word... be baptized and wash your sins away,
1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Fool ...... How....
How else does the Church baptize?
The Church ADDED 3000 to the body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost by BAPTISM!
The Church uses water...... LOOK below...
God wanted the Eunuch "Baptized" the job of Philip was not completed until the Eunuch was Baptized>>>> In Water!! Clearly Philip was teaching the importance of Baptism otherwise why was the Eunuch excited to find >>> WATER???
Acts 8:26
Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” 27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. 29 The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”
30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.
31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading:
“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth.”
34 The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” [37] 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 I hope I did not offend.... I wanted to show you what Christians get from the "New Testament"... I know; You reject the New Testament I wanted to put it all in a Nutshell (so to speak) I tried pointing out "Old Testament" passages, but you rejected them by your interpretation of the Old Testament!
Sorry: I did not intend your discomfort!
Acts 2 doesn't say they used water. It says they were baptized in the name.
That is a literal thing, the name.
It is the ineffable name. It isn't water
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Fool The use of Water is how Christian baptize... Water is always used the Eunuch was baptized with water! Philip (A Christian) taught the importance of Water to be saved by Baptism!
Peter speaking for Jesus ordered that they be baptized with water! Jesus wanted them Baptized with Water!
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
In the Name of Jesus Christ means with "The AUTHORITY of Jesus Christ"! Peter has the AUTHORITY to speak for Jesus! Jesus (God) wanted them Baptized with Water!
God wanted the Eunuch baptized "With Water" Philips job was not completed until the Eunuch was baptized with WATER!
The Early Church Fathers tell you "Water is always used to baptize"!
Justin Martyr
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
Fool in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. This means Justin Martyr was Baptized with WATER!