Baptism?

[rocka21]

But notice how "John's Baptism" wasn't good enough: it had to come from FAITH in Jesus. After all, they WERE baptized were they not?

yes, thats why i personally believe in 3 baptizims.

water - ( dunking - outward sign)
baptism of the heart - ( inward- confess Jesus as lord)
Holy Spirit - ( God in you - sign of tongues)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

yes, thats why i personally believe in 3 baptizims.

water - ( dunking - outward sign)
baptism of the heart - ( inward- confess Jesus as lord)
Holy Spirit - ( God in you - sign of tongues)

But John spoke of the baptism of the one to follow him being "with the Holy Spirit and with fire"; where does the fire work into it?

 

[Scuba Pete]

and you get this from where?

Read the passage: it's right there!

so i take it, you believe this gift passed away?

Well, the scriptures seem to indicate this.

I Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. NIV

and you believe EVERY time you see tongues in the new testament is was " languages"?

And you think it is what?

 

[rocka21]

I Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. NIV

again, classic baptist teaching. LOL ( i know your not baptist, but i run into this verse as an excuse all the time).


For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

or the king james says " you shall know all things". and has knowledge passed away?

let me ask you, do you know all things? NO. why? because its not untill we get to heaven that we will know all things. We don't need tongues or prophecies in heaven. Until then, the gifts are still hear.

now , any more scriptures that say the gifts are not with us today?

 

[rocka21]

But John spoke of the baptism of the one to follow him being "with the Holy Spirit and with fire"; where does the fire work into it?

the Holy Spirit is like " fire shut up in your bones".

every seen people get filled with the spirit? it fires you up to do the work of the Lord.

See spirit filled churches.......

 

[ChristineES]

I am a Baptist, but I don't pray to Jesus at all, I pray to God in Jesus' name. I also don't speak in tongues, I never have (unless you count the French and Spanish I took in High School and College). I am not really offended or anything, but it is a bit embarrassing to keep have my denomination singled out for ridicule. Thanks for listening (I really don't expect any one to change, but I just thought I would let my feelings known.

 

[Scuba Pete]

again, classic baptist teaching. LOL

So let me get this straight, anytime you run into a Scripture you either disagree with or wish to ignore, you just dismiss it as a "Baptist" teaching? No wonder you get things all twisted up! Try letting the scriptures explain themselves rather than forcing them to fit them into YOUR narrow paradigm.

 

[Quiddity]

I'd say pretty early... most likely when the Roman Church stopped using Greek and went to Latin only did the baptizo only retain it's ritual meaning (to cleanse). The Eastern Church, who used Greek from the first century till now still immerses.

We still do both. Most of the western rites (which is in essence Roman) don't do a full immersion, but many of the Eastern ones still follow the more ancient way.

The mistake is to think the more ancient something is the better or more correct. The ritual meaning is what has been retained in both East and West.

 

[Scuba Pete]

the Holy Spirit is like " fire shut up in your bones".

every seen people get filled with the spirit? it fires you up to do the work of the Lord.

See spirit filled churches.......

Now you're confusing PASSION with the true Holy Spirit. Anyone can get all emotional, but we really don't see that in the New Testament church, now do we? It's not even listed as one of the Fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5.

There was an old Spiritual we sang back in the mid 70's called "Ezekiel saw da Wheel". One of the lines goes like this:

Some people come for the singin' and the shoutin'
Hallelu, Hallelu, Hallelujah!
Before too long theys all turned out!

Now, there is nothing WRONG with emotions or passion! They can be great if channeled properly. Just don't substitute these things for what is truly important.

II Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. NIV

Now, Jesus gave us the acid test for being a disciple. Do you know what that is? No, it's not baptism, though you can't achieve this without being baptized. It's also not enthusiasm, passion or emotion.

 

[Quiddity]

Now, there is nothing WRONG with emotions or passion! They can be great if channeled properly. Just don't substitute these things for what is truly important.

Love it!

I was starting to think stoic Christians didn't belong in the kingdom of God.

 

[rocka21]

I am a Baptist, but I don't pray to Jesus at all, I pray to God in Jesus' name. I also don't speak in tongues, I never have (unless you count the French and Spanish I took in High School and College). I am not really offended or anything, but it is a bit embarrassing to keep have my denomination singled out for ridicule. Thanks for listening (I really don't expect any one to change, but I just thought I would let my feelings known.

sorry to embarrassing you. it was all in good fun.

i guess that don't go over to well here.

anyway , again, sorry. ( was just trying to have fun, as i get pokes from other folks as well).

 

[rocka21]

So let me get this straight, anytime you run into a Scripture you either disagree with or wish to ignore, you just dismiss it as a "Baptist" teaching? No wonder you get things all twisted up! Try letting the scriptures explain themselves rather than forcing them to fit them into YOUR narrow paradigm.

again, the baptist thing is a joke, ( lighten up).

and i did not " ignore" the scripture.

i gave you what i see it saying. or did you not read my reply?

 

[rocka21]

Now, Jesus gave us the acid test for being a disciple. Do you know what that is? No, it's not baptism, though you can't achieve this without being baptized. It's also not enthusiasm, passion or emotion.
__________________

was starting to think stoic Christians didn't belong in the kingdom of God.

when did i say " passion or emotion" made you more or less of a christian?

 

[UnTheist]

again, the baptist thing is a joke, ( lighten up).

This is not a joke thread.

 

[rocka21]

This is not a joke thread.

thanks for popping in to tell me that.

Ok,

sorry AGAIN.

 

[Quiddity]

when did i say " passion or emotion" made you more or less of a christian?

When did I say you said it?

 

[madhatter85]

As far as the Baptism of Water and of Fire is concerned.

LDS believe that is is the Holy spirit that sears the sins from your spirit. Just like a fire. there have been multiple accounts of witnesses, across the globe, that saw flames encircling a person being confirmed, with the gift of the holy ghost, after baptism.

That the Baptism by immersion, in water, cleanses your body in preparation for the resurrrection.
The Baptism of Fire comes from the Holy Ghost, cleansing your spirit.

"We believe the first principals and ordinances of the Gospel are: 1st, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; 2nd, Repentance; 3rd, Baptism by Immersion for the remission of sins; 4th, the laying on of Hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost."

 

[rocka21]

When did I say you said it?

you didn't , scuba did. ( or implied that,that was my thought).

and you responded to scuba.

so i responded to both of you.

 

[Scuba Pete]

That the Baptism by immersion, in water, cleanses your body in preparation for the resurrrection.

You realize that this goes against the scriptures?

I Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. NIV

Now here you guys are also teaching that there is MORE than one baptism, and this goes directly against scriptures.

Ephesians 4:3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. NIV

All this crazy talk of two or three baptisms just baffles me. No where in the scriptures does it mention a second type of baptism by which we can be saved, and especially not a third. Yes, there are laying on of hands by the apostles (we seem in short supply of apostles these days), but that is not an additional baptism. Why not just stick to the scriptures rather than inventing your own way?

 

[Scuba Pete]

you didn't , scuba did. ( or implied that,that was my thought).

and you responded to scuba.

so i responded to both of you.

You described EMOTIONS here:

the Holy Spirit is like " fire shut up in your bones".

every seen people get filled with the spirit? it fires you up to do the work of the Lord.

See spirit filled churches

For grins, fo find "fired up" or "fires you up" in the scriptures. It's definitely NOT the acid test for a Christian!