Based on the premise that thoughts are spirit not substance

[savagewind]

They don't "go" anywhere. Thoughts don't "move", they are mental constructs. They exist in the brain and they remain in the brain.


Once again, this sentence is completely impenetrable.


Because thoughts aren't physical substances?


Because they're two different things. Thinking is a process which is the result of a brain, matter is matter.


No. As far as we are aware, no thoughts have ever existed without a brain, so surely they do need some physical space in order to occur.

I appreciate that you are trying to communicate with me. Thoughts do go "someplace". They go to other thoughts. Many thoughts make up a mental picture. Some mental pictures translate over time into something of substance. Sometimes it is because of a collaborative effort which means many minds working together on the same problem. But is it rare. Isn't it very rare? But collaboration in the physical and mindless world is very common. Is that true? Is it not odd?

 

[savagewind]

So lets go with that. Thoughts are the programs which run on neurological hardware.

Please give me a definition of program that does not require a "plan of action".
Thoughts are not planned. They spring up with no plan at all.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I appreciate that you are trying to communicate with me. Thoughts do go "someplace". They go to other thoughts.

What does that even mean?

Many thoughts make up a mental picture.

That doesn't mean they "go" anywhere. Your use of language is extremely confusing. Can be a lot more specific?

Some mental pictures translate over time into something of substance. Sometimes it is because of a collaborative effort which means many minds working together on the same problem. But is it rare. Isn't it very rare? But collaboration in the physical world and mindless world is very common. Is that true? Is it not odd?

You're not making any sense. There's a difference between a thought and an action. A thought doesn't just "become" something physical over time, it's through the process of thinking and acting that that happens. There's a big difference.

Can you respond to any of my points? None of what you have said here has addressed any of my refutations.

Please give me a definition of program that does not require a "plan of action".
Thoughts are not planned. They spring up with no plan at all.

That's completely irrelevant. They're non-physical, therefore by your definition they must be spiritual.

 

[savagewind]

Can you respond to any of my points? None of what you have said here has addressed any of my refutations.

I am sorry my thought is impenetrable. Of course it is your rule that thoughts do not go anywhere.

I agree with you. Thoughts are not physical which need not be repeated on my part, but what the heck?

Matter is different than thought. I agree!

You believe thought does not exist without a brain. I am with Thief who keeps saying spirit first. I believe thought can exist without a brain. I even posted once somewhere that maybe the brain is a house that God built.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I am sorry my thought is impenetrable. Of course it is your rule that thoughts do not go anywhere.

It wasn't a rule, it was statement. Thoughts are non-physical and do not physically "move". You're mixing your language.

I agree with you. Thoughts are not physical which need not be repeated on my part, but what the heck?

Matter is different than thought. I agree!

You believe thought does not exist without a brain. I am with Thief who keeps saying spirit first. I believe thought can exist without a brain.

Then you're going to have to demonstrate that. Please demonstrate that thought can exist without a brain.

 

[savagewind]

I agree thoughts do not need to move through space (see post #12). When a person feels the emotion to accomplish something we say he is "moved". That is what I mean when I say thoughts move. They move toward each other to compliment each other like bits of matter move toward each other to make a connection. Making conections in one's own mind is relatively rare. Making connections between minds is almost non-existent.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I agree thoughts do not need to move through space (see post #12). When a person feels the emotion to accomplish something we say he is "moved". That is what I mean when I say thoughts move.

So what you really mean is that people move, not thoughts. Do not mix up your language, it only confuses your point and complicates any possibility of dialogue.

Now, can you demonstrate that thought can exist without brains?

 

[Thief]

I think I get it.

Spirit first.
Energy and matter are creations.
The Spirit can exist without energy or substance.

Otherwise the formation and expansion of the singularity would be impossible.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I think I get it.

Spirit first.
Energy and matter are creations.
The Spirit can exist without energy or substance.

Otherwise the formation and expansion of the singularity would be impossible.

And yet you always give the choice of "substance first", invalidating your stance that it would be impossible.

Unless you're lying.

 

[Thief]

And yet you always give the choice of "substance first", invalidating your stance that it would be impossible.

Unless you're lying.

Offered as 'choice' to anyone reading my handiwork.

The other is often construed as proselytizing.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Offered as 'choice' to anyone reading my handiwork.

The other is often construed as proselytizing.

Well that's typically what happens when you fail to present evidence to support your claims, instead simply stating them as if facts and forcing others to agree.

Not that that's ever stopped you.

 

[savagewind]

Please demonstrate that thought can exist without a brain.

See that you have a brain and I have a brain to demonstrate thought can happen without a brain is impossible, isn't it?

 

[savagewind]

And yet you always give the choice of "substance first", invalidating your stance that it would be impossible.

Unless you're lying.

Unbelievable! He is asking people if they know what they are standing on and if they know they have a choice of what to stand on.

Which isn't what the thread is about. I understanding going off topic better than anyone, perhaps.

The thread is about the special affinity of mindless matter, which is magical, versus the absence of affinity between human minds which is stupid.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

The thread is about the special affinity of mindless matter, which is magical, versus the absence of affinity between human minds which is stupid.

Special affinity? What?

 

[savagewind]

Special affinity? What?

Is this a real question?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Is this a real question?

Yes. I have literally no idea what you are talking about.

 

[savagewind]

Yes. I have literally no idea what you are talking about.

OK. Good! How many bits of matter make up the simplest chromosome? Do you know?

 

[Thief]

Well that's typically what happens when you fail to present evidence to support your claims, instead simply stating them as if facts and forcing others to agree.

Not that that's ever stopped you.

Stopped myself?....no...of course not.
Given premise and circumstance I would of course say.....yeah....there is a God.

The rest of the crowd does seem hesitant.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

OK. Good! How many bits of matter make up the simplest chromosome? Do you know?

How small are we going? Atoms? Quarks? Strings?

 

[savagewind]

How small are we going? Atoms? Quarks? Strings?

As small as you think.

But let's for the crowd's sake go as small as molecules.