Beaten to death with a brick for opposing arranged marriage

[Autodidact]

So basically, you do your thing, and some other Muslim does his thing, and you disagree but you both think you're doing what God directed. "God's word" is a matter of opinion, determined by the culture and predisposition of the hearer.

It's a shame God can't communicate his directions clearly. But since he can't, it seems rash and irresponsible for anybody to claim to speak for him.

As is so frequently the case, God seems to behave exactly as He would if He didn't exist. Coincidence, that.

 

[Bismillah]

Aren't Muslims supposed to model their behavior on that of Muhammad?

This is called Sunnah which is the study of the Prophet's life and sayings. I am wary of those who advocate it because it comes off as idolizing to me and it is clearly stated that we are not to worship the Prophet. Imitating practices that are no longer necessary or morally right in today's society is a foolish undertaking then. We can emulate the Prophet's message when it comes to relevent practices such as with the sick and needy, but trying to incorporate an archaic practice of a society centuries past is a very stupid thing to do.

We're not. We're condemning child marriage taking place today.

You really need to speak for yourself because others definitely are, on an intellectually bankrupt basis. And no Muslim in this thread isn't condemning child marriage. But like I said child marriages are a byproduct of economic depravity, not a religious basis.

Where do you find this in the quran or hadith?

Why would the Qur'an mention the attitude of society of child marriage 1400 years in the future? You are completely missing the point of the scripture if you believe it should have been incorporated within it. Like I have said, I reject child marriage on the basis of the Qur'an.

It's a shame God can't communicate his directions clearly. But since he can't, it seems rash and irresponsible for anybody to claim to speak for him.

Perhaps there is an intention. The reason why Islam has survived so long is because while its tenants remain unyielding, it also has the ability to adapt and fit someones perceptions and beliefs. People can make Islam a part of their lives today as much as they were able to in ancient Arabia. The journey of Islam is not a stoic linear one, but a fluid one branching in different schools of thought and opinion. It is up to the person to base their beliefs on their own morality.

 

[Smoke]

Perhaps there is an intention. The reason why Islam has survived so long is because while its tenants remain unyielding, it also has the ability to adapt and fit someones perceptions and beliefs. People can make Islam a part of their lives today as much as they were able to in ancient Arabia. The journey of Islam is not a stoic linear one, but a fluid one branching in different schools of thought and opinion. It is up to the person to base their beliefs on their own morality.

Oh, I don't mind Islam being adaptable. In fact, you could say my beef with Islam is that it isn't adaptable enough.

What I object to is people claiming their beliefs came direct from God when in fact it's obvious that their beliefs are shaped in large part by culture, predisposition, and circumstance. It's a sort of imposture I find ridiculous and morally wrong.

 

[Bismillah]

What I object to is people claiming their beliefs came direct from God when in fact it's obvious that their beliefs are shaped in large part by culture, predisposition, and circumstance. It's a sort of imposture I find ridiculous and morally wrong.

Beliefs such as child marriage per se? If that is what you are getting at, then I agree.

 

[David69]

A prepubescent child was forced into a marriage with Mohammad himself (pbuh), which he consummated. So that sort of thing is regretfully inherent in the religion.

what u mean mohammad was a nonse? the same person that could do not one eeensy weeensy bit or majick! saying that I think it may be legal to be a pedophile in backwark countrys hmmm will have to think on that but al say this theres gonna be big changes when I rule the world!

 

[beenie]

"everything is open to interpretation, my friend...even our beloved Constitution."

The Constitution doesn't claim to be the inerrant Word of the one and only living God.

touche.
i guess i mis-stated my reply.

there are very basic, fundamental beliefs that the Qur'an specifies to us. those are the 5 pillars of Islam and the 6 pillars of faith. the rest of the "rules" and "fatwas" are subject to interpretation, and i think that's how it should be.

as i stated in another thread, i find it very disturbing to have all these fatwas and government sanctioned religious rules. it takes away free thought and i find that dangerous.

 

[BadBeast]

My girlfriend was talking about some atrocities our soldiers have committed to innocent people in Iraq/Afghanistan and was expressing disbelief at how it could happen...

I said something to the effect of "Well yeah, you take 18 year old boys and give them guns and tell them to KILL KILL KILL and then put people's lives in their hands without much in the way of consequences and what do you think is going to happen?"

That made me think after that about the scariness inherent in human nature. People without access to quality education who live in poverty don't have much excuse when they start doing idiotic, evil stuff like honor killings, corrective rape etc.... but I think a lot of humans, were authority and protection like civilization and law offers stripped away, would make life miserable for the rest of us.

I think this just shows how truly important it is to emphasize offering education and a higher quality of life to people globally in any way possible... people who understand more things tend to behave not because some authority figure will bring down consequences on them but because they want to.

Absolutely. And have you noticed that throughout History, War has always been the old men, sending the young men to fight and die? The older men realise that the young are naive, and idealistic. This quality has always been eminently exploitable, and been used to channel the natural vigour and energy
of the young, towards agendas that are at the very least, questionable, and at worst, spurious and irreversible.

 

[.lava]

As is so frequently the case, God seems to behave exactly as He would if He didn't exist. Coincidence, that.

am i getting it right, Autodidact? in case i stay hidden, speak not, interfer not and then i would not exist anymore. illogical logic that is IMO

.

 

[Smoke]

Beliefs such as child marriage per se? If that is what you are getting at, then I agree.

That's a particularly egregious example, but the pretense of knowing "God's word" isn't any more believable in less harmful instances.

 

[Autodidact]

am i getting it right, Autodidact? in case i stay hidden, speak not, interfer not and then i would not exist anymore. illogical logic that is IMO

.

sorry, didn't understand your post.