Are you sure Jesus lived with God before he was born?
Listen to what Jesus told his disciples,
Mat 10:16 "Behold, I am sending you out like sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. But beware of people, because they will hand you over to councils, and they will flog you in their synagogues. And you will be brought before both governors and kings because of me, for a witness to them and to the Gentiles. But whenever they hand you over, do not be anxious how to speak or what you should say, for what you should say will be given to you at that hour. For you are not the ones who are speaking, but the Spirit of your Father who is speaking through you."
If the Spirit of the Father could be the one speaking through Jesus' disciples, and not the disciples speaking, could it not also be the Spirit of the Father speaking through Jesus?
Hi There Light,
Please forgive me for not understanding your question regarding Matthew 10:16. It does not seem to relate to whether Jesus lived with God before he was born. Hopefully the following will answer your question to me:
In the Beginning
In Hebrew it is written 'In the beginning [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth'. At some point in eternity, our time line began, starting with the creation of our earth and the heavens in our firmament. Here we find the ‘Supreme God’ giving instruction to his 'Son by birth', on what they should do. The relationship that existed in eternity continues still today and has never been a oneness of the Trinitarian type, which the church threatened us with Hell if we did not believe. This fear of hell has perpetuated the dogma for over a millennia and has influenced the psyche of the public for long enough.
Context:
The book of Genesis, chapter one in Hebrew, has 31 references to 'Elohim' creating the heavens and the earth. The term 'Elohim' can have a pluralistic nature as it can refer to ‘Gods’, rather than a singular 'El' for a single God depending on the context, but was the plural term originally used? To clarify the context it is necessary to look at the wider chapter to see what is going on. We know that mid-flow of the creation there is a pause while the Gods talk to each other and say 'Let us make man in our image'. The plural use of the terms ‘us’ and ‘our’ give context that while one of the Gods may have been giving the command, they were both unified in one purpose during the creation. From this context we can apply the term 'Gods' to the original word 'Elohim'. However, as the scriptures attest, in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. So context can be assisted by a second narrative in another Testament.
New Testament:
We have a number of Greek copies of the original new testament text, so, despite being subject to the same transmission errors from the original to the copy, we have enough to ensure some measure of clarity on various topics.
'God... Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds' [Hebrews 1:1-3].
The word 'Theos' translated as 'God' more specifically means 'The supreme God' in ancient Greek. He created the heavens and the earth by his 'Son' which is a translation of 'Hyios' that means 'son by birth or adoption'. The chapter goes on to declare:
'You are my Son, today I have begotten you.'
Next, God, the supreme Theos, states publically that he has anointed Jesus Christ, his Son by birth, to become a God:
‘Your throne, O God [Jesus], is for ever and ever, the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God [Supreme God], has anointed you [Jesus, the Son] with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.’
Now to list the great accomplishments that his Son has achieved, God the Father states once again, that it was Jesus who made the heavens and the earth:
‘You, Lord [Jesus], laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands... sit at my right hand’ [Hebrews 1:1-13 ESV].
You can almost taste the joy that the Father has in his son though these verses. Context about who created the heavens and the earth -and who was present in the beginning- is given by the book of Hebrews, along with a second witness of the same. The supreme God had anointed his Son, who was Lord over the whole earth, to be a God, and sit by his right hand side as an heir of Heaven. It was to this exalted station that Jesus was referring, when he prayed in Gethsemane.
‘And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was...Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.’ [John 17: 5-24]
Jesus, Yahweh, the King (and God) of Israel [Deut. 32:8-9], lived with the Supreme God, his father, in the eternities as a separate and individual God. I believe that God has anointed his son with the oil of gladness and dwells in unity with him, as they both call upon us to join them as joint heirs, [Romans 8:17] and enter into their glory.
If is for these reasons taken from Genesis and Hebrews, that I firmly believe Jesus lived with God before his birth, and indeed before the creation occurred.
Before baptism we need a new heart placed within us. Through the expression of a ‘broken and a contrite heart’ in the book of Psalms, David shows that in the Old Testament, the prophets were well aware that all their sacrificing of animals was to no avail, if their hearts were not right before God. The animal sacrifices were there to remind them of the Messiah who would come to take away their sins, but what God really wanted was the changing of peoples’ hearts to move them away from sin entirely. Confessing with our mouths that Jesus is the Christ is not the last tick in the box on our ticket to heaven, but only the first. Next is to have our very hearts changed, and our spirits brought in line with that of the Saviour. God has described the type of people who will dwell in the glory of heaven with him by saying, ‘For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones’ [Isaiah 57:15].