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Belief in God and Actuality of God
- Thread starter rojse
- Start date
rojse
RF Addict
I would rather let everyone explain what they mean by God.
rojse
RF Addict
I'm talking about your God concept, whatever it may be. Not anyone else's.
rojse
RF Addict
I need to clear one thing up. I'm not interested in your response to whatever you think my idea of God is (I am an atheist, by the way). I am interested in your response based upon whatever your idea of God is.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I don't think there's any difference. My belief that God exists means that for me God exists. No me = no God. no God = no me.
Heneni
Miss Independent
I don't know...i think a demon could answer the question....'what would the world be like if everybody knew there was a god for real?' and children of God can best answer 'what the world is like if we believe that god is real without having seen him'.
Knowing for sure that God is real does not seem to gaurentee a good ending to the story. The proper christian doctrine explains that god chose us, we did not choose him, so that means god finds us...we dont find Him. If we had to find God where shall we start to look? where can we go to search him out? The presence of God can not be hunted or experienced or sensed or fabricated unless God so wishes to make his existance known to man. (personal existance rather than evidence of existance in creation)
The words often used by christians like 'i found god' is in my opinion off the mark. Where did these people find God? If then we find God, then we might as well concede that we found him in our imagination. But if then God finds us...that does not mean we are imagining things...
If this world was one where everybody was sure of the existance of God, I believe it would be similar (but not exactly like) what the celestial 'world' was like before the creation of the universe. The 'time' before time. But here I have to add that the next celestial world which includes us as pure spiritual beings will be different to the one before or the one that exists now. Because there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
I sometimes think of this world as one big womb. The child does not see the world 'out there' but its aware of its own existance and its aware of the mother. But until it is born, it cannot see the mother or the world. In the same way, christians are now aware of the spiritual world, of their 'mother' (GOD) but they have not seen him yet. Here they grow until such time they are born into (resurrected) into the spiritual world, where their eyes will behold it, and their eyes will see God.
Heneni
So it's a question about the power of belief? We believe in reality, so no difference.
Whichever difference God itself decided to create directly, I guess.
That, and whatever conceivably happened to exist in hypothetical other realms/lifes/worlds out there.
In a word, probably none.
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
Man, I got all kinds of answers to this question...
1) There would be no difference. I say this because I have looked into the origins of religion from an evolutionary standpoint, which seem to indicate that if god didn't exist; we would invent him anyway.
2) There would be no difference, because god's clever like that.
3) This is from personal experience and very limited "close exposure" to Christians... I've had one of those "personal encounters with god." I've spent years trying to disbelieve, disprove, ignore... etc. I fully accept that this "event" may be mere delusion. All deniability in place? Check. This cat is just "other," k? That part said... in terms of "belief in god," and "actuality of god;" I have yet to meet someone who believes that god actually exists. Like rain. I've seen a "belief structure for god," I've seen "belief in god" as someone one might have to deal with after death... but belief in god that can come and knock on one's door? Nah. But remember, this is an extremely small sample set. I pretty much do not talk religion in person because of extreme experiences... and hey, it may just be delusion.
1) There would be no difference. I say this because I have looked into the origins of religion from an evolutionary standpoint, which seem to indicate that if god didn't exist; we would invent him anyway.
2) There would be no difference, because god's clever like that.
3) This is from personal experience and very limited "close exposure" to Christians... I've had one of those "personal encounters with god." I've spent years trying to disbelieve, disprove, ignore... etc. I fully accept that this "event" may be mere delusion. All deniability in place? Check. This cat is just "other," k? That part said... in terms of "belief in god," and "actuality of god;" I have yet to meet someone who believes that god actually exists. Like rain. I've seen a "belief structure for god," I've seen "belief in god" as someone one might have to deal with after death... but belief in god that can come and knock on one's door? Nah. But remember, this is an extremely small sample set. I pretty much do not talk religion in person because of extreme experiences... and hey, it may just be delusion.
Dano
Mitmensch
Coming back to the original question:
Option 1: God exists, and the majority of people believe that God exists in some form or other
Option 2: God does not exist, and the majority of people believe that God exists in some form or other
I think it matters very much what definition of god is considered.
If it is an impersonal god that kicked the universe into being and lets it run according to the laws of nature without interference, then there is no difference.
If it is the Judeo-Christian god, option 1 would worry me.
Option 1: God exists, and the majority of people believe that God exists in some form or other
Option 2: God does not exist, and the majority of people believe that God exists in some form or other
I think it matters very much what definition of god is considered.
If it is an impersonal god that kicked the universe into being and lets it run according to the laws of nature without interference, then there is no difference.
If it is the Judeo-Christian god, option 1 would worry me.
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
Well, in that case; don't worry. I mean, I thought that I answered the question; and even threw in a bonus... but now it seems you're just looking for a belief system in order not to have a belief system. Good luck with that.
rojse
RF Addict
The thing with this sort of thread is that there is no one answer.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I was thinking some more about this. I was thinking of people with achromotopsia. As well as losing the ability to perceive colour they lose the ability to imagine it.
Substitute colour for God.
If we were to turn the existence of your conceptualisation of Colour into a dual alternative, we would have the following two options:
Option 1: Colour exists, and the majority of people believe that colour exists in some form or other
Option 2: Colour does not exist, and the majority of people believe that colour exists in some form or other
What would be the difference between the two options?
You see colour or you don't. If you see it then for you it is a reality. If you don't see it you can't imagine it and it is not a reality.
From a human perspective colour in itself is meaningless. Colour means something to those who see it because they see it, if they don't see it - it doesn't exist.
Substitute colour for God.
If we were to turn the existence of your conceptualisation of Colour into a dual alternative, we would have the following two options:
Option 1: Colour exists, and the majority of people believe that colour exists in some form or other
Option 2: Colour does not exist, and the majority of people believe that colour exists in some form or other
What would be the difference between the two options?
You see colour or you don't. If you see it then for you it is a reality. If you don't see it you can't imagine it and it is not a reality.
From a human perspective colour in itself is meaningless. Colour means something to those who see it because they see it, if they don't see it - it doesn't exist.
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
You can't be serious....
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
This begs the question. Your description assumes that God is like colour in that colour is simply what we experience as a result of certain stimuli. The objective reality associated with colours are different tendencies of objects to reflect different wavelengths of light. "Outside" there are wavelengths. "Inside" there are colours -- how we experience the wavelengths. What "exists" are the wavelengths, and they exist whether or not one perceives colour.
So your description begs the question whether "God" is like the wavelengths or like the perception of colour.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I guess we'll find out if god is ever shown to exist.
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
I work for the cat. Cat = "other." Monday, I explained "end times" prophecy to my shrink in scientific terms. I'm not seen as delusional. I said I was the sanest person there, and everyone seemed to agree.
Oh, I receive psychiatric counseling because nobody understands my love of Gwynnie. On all other subjects, I'm seen as quite rational.