Belief in God . . .

[Dentonz]

What an assumption you make. You don't think I have studied the bible, or other christian works? I suppose you'd be interested in knowing that I was studying for the Capuchin priesthood while I was still in high school. And I studied for the Benedictine priesthood in College. While I also have studied many Christian and Muslim Mystics, Chinese Taoism and Chi Gong from Wudang Masters, Soto Zen, Theravada Buddhism, Shamanism from local Cherokee and Pawnee 1st nations, Shinto from one of my Tang Soo Do masters, and so much more. I have also had a constant interraction, dialogue, and apprenticeship with the spirits for over 10 years. This would be equated with the christians interraction with the holy spirit. Except I am not limited only to one spirit. Perhaps my "narrow knowledge" could be widened a bit. And I certainly intend to, and will be constantly doing so.

I'm pleased you intend to widen your knowledge. But there is only one Holy Spirit. There are many spirits, but the Spirit of God is one. To know him is to love him, and to love him is to follow his commandments. Such as "no other gods before me" for one example. That is what I mean about a narrow knowledge of the Creator. I'm sure you have great knowledge of the spirits of this world, but be careful my brother. Satan was once an angel of light and still appears that way.

 

[RAZBERRY]

RAZBERRY, you don't need to apologize to him. He has a long history of presenting his opinions as if they are facts and dismissing others' opinions in an arrogant and belittling manner with comments such as "... I beieve the "holy bible" is fiction, and therefore your opinion matters to only you...":tsk:

Cycling back to some proximity to the topic at hand...people who believe in something that others cannot readily see are often ridiculed by those who do not believe it. Some of them are open-minded enough to reconsider their views...others just continue to ridicule.

Thx CaptainX. I'm a newbie so it's going to take me awhile to figure things out.
I'm trying to have a Christian attitude though. :162: Sometimes tho, I put my mouth in motion before I put my mind in gear.

 

[Dentonz]

Thx CaptainX. I'm a newbie so it's going to take me awhile to figure things out.
I'm trying to have a Christian attitude though. :162: Sometimes tho, I put my mouth in motion before I put my mind in gear.

I love that your trying to have a Christian attitude, but there were times when Jesus rebuked people, cast some out of the temple with a whip, and very rarely said anything that everybody liked. Keepin' it real, just keepin' it real.

 

[RAZBERRY]

Then you shouldn't make generalizations that evolution is wrong, if you refuse to read what scientists have presented and attempt to refute it. I have no problem if you believe in creationism or Christianity, but when you call something wrong without reading the alternate viewpoint for objectivity, that's when I, personally, have a problem.

You have no problem with my Chrisitanity? Yet you have a problem with my disinterest in "the alternate viewpoint"? It's one or the other. I chose.

I was brought up a Christian and used to be quite religious. I used to block out alternate viewpoints, as you do. Then I read them and realized that the alternate viewpoint had empiracal evidence to back it up. Not the whole cop out of "The bible is God's word and therefore correct. Evolution is merely thought up by man" and presenting no evidence or reason to believe that.

You may have been brought up in a Christian church, but you couldn't have been a Christian. Just because you stand in the garage doesn't make you a mercedes. You wouldn't have left Christ, nor would Christ have ever let you go, had you been His. With God, there is no "alternate viewpoints".

I'm a non-believer and I don't believe believers are nuts. I just happen to have different beliefs and outlooks than them. If anything, I just think believers are sometimes mislead. But hey, if your beliefs give you meaning in your life and you use them to do good and not harm, I have no problem with them.

I guess, with your being a non-believer--if it turns out you're right, oh well. No biggie for anyone. If I'm right though, you're in a heap of trouble. (I believe I'm right too).

I'm not attacking you. I was just calling you on what I thought were ignorant criticisms of evolution.

That's quite all right. I find your ideals just as ignorant.

 

[standing_alone]

Yet you have a problem with my disinterest in "the alternate viewpoint"?

What I have a problem with is you criticizing evolution without even attempting to understand what it's about. You don't have to accept it. I don't really care if you do. And I would think it would help if you knew some details about evolution so you could attempt to refute them. May make your case a little stronger than just stating that you refuse to look at an alternate viewpoint. You don't need to accept it, just learn what it's about. But if you want to be close-minded, that's your choice.

You may have been brought up in a Christian church, but you couldn't have been a Christian.

Well, I'll be. For all those years I was convinced the Christian God existed. Who'd a thunk I was never a Christian the whole time! Come on, just because I eventually lost faith doesn't mean that at one time I didn't have faith.

If I'm right though, you're in a heap of trouble. (I believe I'm right too).

Yeah, if you're right, I suppose I am. But I'm not too worried. I'm just going to live my life and do good things not because I'm afraid of God and eternal hellfire, but because it's the right thing to do.

That's quite all right. I find your ideals just as ignorant.

I didn't call your ideals ignorant. I called your criticisms of evolution (something you don't attempt to understand) as ignorant. When you don't understand something (and make no attempts to understand), you are ignorant about that subject.

 

[YmirGF]

Hiya Razberry,

I see you are settling and beginning to feel at home. It is a fun bunch here, for the most part. As much as I could wither your patience with my views on your faith I would rather pat you on the back for having the courage to peserve with your beliefs. We need people like you to keep us all real. Christians are salts of the earth in that, they are the type that will give you the shirt off their backs and ask if you are still cold. Strange people. Living in the light of the joyous Nazarine. You could have picked worse things. Enjoy the good life.

 

[Smoke]

I guess, with your being a non-believer--if it turns out you're right, oh well. No biggie for anyone. If I'm right though, you're in a heap of trouble. (I believe I'm right too).

I can't imagine that going to hell would be any worse than going to a heaven populated entirely by evangelical Christians.

 

[RAZBERRY]

I love that your trying to have a Christian attitude, but there were times when Jesus rebuked people, cast some out of the temple with a whip, and very rarely said anything that everybody liked. Keepin' it real, just keepin' it real.

I simply try to remember that I'm no more deserving of God's grace than they are. It's only thru Christ I have been made acceptable as He's the only good thing about me.
Isn't it amazing how we're called ignorant by not accepting mans' ideals, but non-believers think their rejection of Christ is an intelligent path? I guess there's no way we can make them comprehend. That's up to the Holy Spirit. Many hardened hearts out there. So sad.

 

[Master Vigil]

A concern I have

Since I don't see that happening. I have no concern.

RAZBERRY, you don't need to apologize to him. He has a long history of presenting his opinions as if they are facts and dismissing others' opinions in an arrogant and belittling manner with comments such as "...

I beieve the "holy bible" is fiction, and therefore your opinion matters to only you..."

I am merely showing how opinion is just that. Opinion. The opinion that the bible is fact is no more valid than my opinion that it isn't. Is that arrogant? If you want to believe it is, fine. For me, it's just logical.

 

[Master Vigil]

I'm pleased you intend to widen your knowledge. But there is only one Holy Spirit. There are many spirits, but the Spirit of God is one. To know him is to love him, and to love him is to follow his commandments. Such as "no other gods before me" for one example. That is what I mean about a narrow knowledge of the Creator. I'm sure you have great knowledge of the spirits of this world, but be careful my brother. Satan was once an angel of light and still appears that way.

Actually, I know the holy spirit very well. The spirit you believe is Satan is an interesting one too. But I better not tell you what I think of it or else you may get the impression that I'm evil. :tsk: You know the spirit world from a book, and your "narrow knowledge" follows from that. Perhaps a widened approach will allow you to understand the spirits better. Be careful my brother, ignorance is not always bliss.

 

[pdoel]

We can believe in Santa if we like...but I know I've never seen anything come into my life that was connected with him...HOWEVER...I can feel God's pressence unlike that of Saint Nicolas.(santa clause).

That's actually kind of sad. I'm sorry that you have never felt or seen a spirit like that of Santa Claus. I have, and have heard many stories of such. Stories of families that lost everything close to the Holidays, only to wake up Christmas morning to find that a stranger had left for them a feast for the Holiday. People who have opened up their homes to those in need. People who have given time and donations to help those who are less fortunate.

I think the "spirit" of Santa Claus is all around us. Whether it's a real person, or simply a "Spirit of Christmas" type of thing, I think it's everywhere. I see it all the time, and I do my best to share in that spirit and help others in need.

 

[Radar]

My mother told me as long as there is love in your heart that Santa exist. There is love in my heart for my child so therefore Santa exist and I am Santa for my child just like my mother was Santa for me. I know I am going to get some flack because I am agnostic/atheist so how can I celebrate Christmas. Well I look at is as being a winter holiday and celebrate the secular aspects of it with the giving of gifts and being with family. I do not attend any church service, display any nativity scenes or anything that puts Christ in Xmas. It is just a secular winter holiday to me known by believers as Christmas.

 

[fromthe heart]

That's actually kind of sad. I'm sorry that you have never felt or seen a spirit like that of Santa Claus. I have, and have heard many stories of such. Stories of families that lost everything close to the Holidays, only to wake up Christmas morning to find that a stranger had left for them a feast for the Holiday. People who have opened up their homes to those in need. People who have given time and donations to help those who are less fortunate.

I think the "spirit" of Santa Claus is all around us. Whether it's a real person, or simply a "Spirit of Christmas" type of thing, I think it's everywhere. I see it all the time, and I do my best to share in that spirit and help others in need.

Oh I never said I never felt the 'Spirit of Christmas' why it's all around...but to me it's not credited to ole'santa...goodness comes from the heart of good people who have the gift of service in them to give and if you knew me better you'd know just how wrong you are. The gift of love is one that comes from God...as we love our neighbor we want for tehm everything we can give...but to feel that the Spirit of Christmas never exsisted prior to Jesus birth...it's that very same Jesus that put in us the want to give to those less fortunate. I do know of a family just this Christmas season who lost everything due to a fire that took all they had...ps they are staying with my Mom and wearing clothes from my house,sleeping on pillows that came from my house...do you understand...but giving to me comes from learning that 'God so loved the world that He GAVE'!!!
smiles my friend...we're getting off topic to some degree here and we can't have that...:>)

 

[RAZBERRY]

What I have a problem with is you criticizing evolution without even attempting to understand what it's about. You don't have to accept it. I don't really care if you do. And I would think it would help if you knew some details about evolution so you could attempt to refute them. May make your case a little stronger than just stating that you refuse to look at an alternate viewpoint. You don't need to accept it, just learn what it's about. But if you want to be close-minded, that's your choice.

We're just volleying back and forth here :jiggy: , but where exactly is my "critiscism" of evolution? My disbelief? I believe God reveals the truth to His own. It's your perogative to believe in evolution, as opposed to my personal revelation.

Well, I'll be. For all those years I was convinced the Christian God existed. Who'd a thunk I was never a Christian the whole time! Come on, just because I eventually lost faith doesn't mean that at one time I didn't have faith.

Belief in God doesn't make anyone a Christian. Belief in what Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me", makes one a Christian. You either believe He told the truth or He lied. If you believe Him, you desire to follow Him.

Yeah, if you're right, I suppose I am. But I'm not too worried. I'm just going to live my life and do good things not because I'm afraid of God and eternal hellfire, but because it's the right thing to do.

I try to do good because I love God. Fear of hell has nothing to do with it. I'm secure.

I didn't call your ideals ignorant. I called your criticisms of evolution (something you don't attempt to understand) as ignorant. When you don't understand something (and make no attempts to understand), you are ignorant about that subject.

Again, I believe God over Darwin, or any other man.
A non-Christian CAN'T understand Christianity, so that makes a non-Christian ignorant on the subject of Christianity as well. If non-believers desire to understand, then only by the grace of the God will they.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[blueman]

The evidence for a supernatural being resides all around us (earth, universe,etc.) and the precision in which this world evolved points to an intelligent designer. Where is the evidence for Santa Claus? Most people agree and accept Santa as a wonderful character, but a fictional one where as they could not honestly say with any assurance that this applies to God as well.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

The evidence for a supernatural being resides all around us (earth, universe,etc.) and the precision in which this world evolved points to an intelligent designer. Where is the evidence for Santa Claus? Most people agree and accept Santa as a wonderful character, but a fictional one where as they could not honestly say with any assurance that this applies to God as well.

Huh? Care to point out where there is more evidence for the existence of God than the existence of Santa Claus? How incredibly ironic that you so flippantly dismiss the idea of Santa, because logically there is no evidence of his existence, but insist that all the natural phenomena, already reasonably explained by the natural sciences are created by an otherworldly, supernatural force, which cannot be tested.

B.

 

[Dentonz]

Actually, I know the holy spirit very well. The spirit you believe is Satan is an interesting one too. But I better not tell you what I think of it or else you may get the impression that I'm evil. :tsk: You know the spirit world from a book, and your "narrow knowledge" follows from that. Perhaps a widened approach will allow you to understand the spirits better. Be careful my brother, ignorance is not always bliss.

We could go on and on forever, just please don't get the impression that my knowledge comes from a book. The words written on a page mean absolutely nothing without the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Which only comes with a personal relationship with the Word of God. There are millions who have read and continue to read the Holy Bible without any understanding. Because their eyes are blinded by their own pride and intelect. A Christian who believes merely because they have been told what to believe (without any personal knowledge) can falter in their belief because they don't know.
But brother I know that after all else has passed away, the Kingdom of Christ will remain. All spirits in heaven and earth, everything with a name and those nameless; are all subject to the name of Jesus.

 

[john63]

That's actually kind of sad. I'm sorry that you have never felt or seen a spirit like that of Santa Claus. I have, and have heard many stories of such. Stories of families that lost everything close to the Holidays, only to wake up Christmas morning to find that a stranger had left for them a feast for the Holiday. People who have opened up their homes to those in need. People who have given time and donations to help those who are less fortunate.

I think the "spirit" of Santa Claus is all around us. Whether it's a real person, or simply a "Spirit of Christmas" type of thing, I think it's everywhere. I see it all the time, and I do my best to share in that spirit and help others in need.

That's a good way to feel, but don't you think the spirit of giving and compassion should be in us all the time and not just during December. People are poor and distressed all year round, my friend. I don't need Satan Claus to fill me with a desire to help people. I do it simply because it's the right thing to do.

 

[standing_alone]

but where exactly is my "critiscism" of evolution?

Perhaps, criticism wasn't the word I was searching for, but you have an obvious misunderstanding of evolution and are quick to dismiss it and won't read anything about it. Why? Are you afraid that by learning about evolution that it might weaken your faith?

But one thing I find funny that you refuse to believe we (in your perspective of evolution) evolved from mud, you're perfectly fine that humans were created out of dust.

for dust you are and to the dust you will go back.

I guess, I just think that someone shouldn't call something (essentially) ridiculous (because they don't understand it) and then not take any initiative to understand what it is. But, I'll never get this point across to you, so I give up. I don't have a problem with you believing in creationism, but I have a problem when you claim a theory is ridiculous ("As opposed to the 'big bang' and evolving from mud?" yadda yadda) when you don't even know much about it. Believe in creationism then, but then don't make misinformed comments about evolution.

Belief in God doesn't make anyone a Christian. Belief in what Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me", makes one a Christian. You either believe He told the truth or He lied. If you believe Him, you desire to follow Him.

When I was a Christian I believed all that stuff was true, from that God inspired men to write the Bible to creationism to Noah's ark to Jesus and his resurrection. I took the Bible quite literal. But since I wasn't really a Christian, I'm so glad I'm not wasting an hour of my life every week at church anymore.

Again, I believe God over Darwin, or any other man.

Fine with me. I like to believe in something that has empiracal evidence. But I know, God is just trying to fool us with all those fossils and stuff.

A non-Christian CAN'T understand Christianity, so that makes a non-Christian ignorant on the subject of Christianity as well.

I don't claim to be Master of Christianity, but there is quite a bit I understand. I can't quote Bible verses off the top of my head (God forbid), but here's what I know: God created the world in six days, on the seventh he rested. Satan was an angel that fell (I believe it was something about having too big of an ego). He tempted Eve to successfully eat fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (a big no-no). Man fell into sin, blah blah blah. God told he would send a Savior. Cain killed Able, blah blah blah. The world became really sinful so God started a flood, he let Noah know so he could build an ark for a pair of every animal. I believe eight people stayed on the ark, blah blah blah. Tower of Babble, God forbade the construction of that, made different languages, blah blah blah. Skipping to new Testement, Jesus is born in Bethlehem (Mary and Joseph had to travel to Bethlehem because "Ceasar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world..."), there was no room in the inn, manger, blah blah blah. Skipping more, Jesus was betrayed by Judas (with a kiss) who ended up hanging himself. Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins and resurrected on the third day. I'll stop here. Yeah, I don't know alot about Christianity, but I wouldn't consider myself completely ignorant. I probably know more about Christianity than you know about evolution (but you do know more about Christianity than I do - not debating that). Could you tell me what you know about evolution? Just as a non-Christian is ignorant about Christianity, I bet a Christian is rather ignorant about evolution.

But you know, you're right. We are just volleying, so if you don't care to respond, I don't care. I'm kind of sick of this myself. We're not accomplishing anything.

 

[Master Vigil]

We could go on and on forever, just please don't get the impression that my knowledge comes from a book. The words written on a page mean absolutely nothing without the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Which only comes with a personal relationship with the Word of God. There are millions who have read and continue to read the Holy Bible without any understanding. Because their eyes are blinded by their own pride and intelect. A Christian who believes merely because they have been told what to believe (without any personal knowledge) can falter in their belief because they don't know.
But brother I know that after all else has passed away, the Kingdom of Christ will remain. All spirits in heaven and earth, everything with a name and those nameless; are all subject to the name of Jesus.

We could go on forever, do you know why? Because we both are arguing for and against ideas that cannot be proven or disproven. Your "fact" is as valid as mine. Whether we believe it or not. Your "knowledge about the kingdom of christ" is not based on objective perception, because that "kingdom" does not exist right now. You don't know the future. Nor do I. But I certainly am not going to say something I don't know is fact. That would be ludicrous. I can accept your belief, but only if it stays at belief. Equating belief with fact is completely fallacious.