Belief is Irrelevant

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I did not answer the poll as there are myriads of issues with it.

I think the most important issue with the poll is that the question is incomplete ... "belief is irrelevant" ... to what?

In the more measured line of what is and is not true, belief is entirely irrelevant ... I can "believe" all I want to that the North Pole sees temperatures of 110 degrees Fahrenheit during the Summer months; but no amount of belief will change the fact that it simply does not.

In the more broader scope, belief is entirely relevant in terms of human behavior; as we act on what we believe, for better or for worse. If I believe strongly enough in the temperature of 110 degrees F in the North Pole, I'm at risk of freezing to death or causing others to do the same; no need to bundle up! Rosa Parks believed strongly enough that she had the human right and SHOULD have the human right to ride that bus; and she changed the course of a nation.

 

[leibowde84]

reason is then sufficient?

why then the constant plea for evidence?

Oh, it doesn't convince me ... not by itself. But, I'm sure it is enough for many others.

 

[LukeS]

I believe thoughts change the patterns of the brain, and therefore relational properties to the universe. Even if I am just sitting down, I relate to the world throught thought, and changing belief is as causal an affair as changing body language..

 

[Willamena]

Someone posted as if this title is literally true

I suppose your pending post should define what belief is
and then declare it be important
or not

Here's me. There's the world.
Belief is that there "is."

Belief is unavoidable, but for that very reason it is irrelevant. No logic will bring you to it, no analysis will bring it to you, it's just there. No amount of jumping up and down with a spoon will rid you of it. It doesn't come and go, it doesn't ebb and flow, it just is. And it only "is" when you think about it.

You don't have to think about it, that's not a requirement.

 

[Thief]

Here's me. There's the world.
Belief is that there "is."

Belief is unavoidable, but for that very reason it is relevant. No logic will bring you to it, no analysis will bring it to you, it's just there. No amount of jumping up and down with a spoon will rid you of it. It doesn't come and go, it doesn't ebb and flow, it just is. And it only "is" when you think about it.

You don't have to think about it, that's not a requirement.

interesting.....
observation is sufficient?
denial pointless?

does this include items beyond perception?
does this include items perceived only by reason?

 

[Thief]

I believe thoughts change the patterns of the brain, and therefore relational properties to the universe. Even if I am just sitting down, I relate to the world throught thought, and changing belief is as causal an affair as changing body language..

body language.....hmmmmm

I've been a disco dancer and a kung fu black belt

it was all good for me

do you think you can change your belief quickly enough?
as we stand before God and heaven?

 

[Thief]

I did not answer the poll as there are myriads of issues with it.

I think the most important issue with the poll is that the question is incomplete ... "belief is irrelevant" ... to what?

In the more measured line of what is and is not true, belief is entirely irrelevant ... I can "believe" all I want to that the North Pole sees temperatures of 110 degrees Fahrenheit during the Summer months; but no amount of belief will change the fact that it simply does not.

In the more broader scope, belief is entirely relevant in terms of human behavior; as we act on what we believe, for better or for worse. If I believe strongly enough in the temperature of 110 degrees F in the North Pole, I'm at risk of freezing to death or causing others to do the same; no need to bundle up! Rosa Parks believed strongly enough that she had the human right and SHOULD have the human right to ride that bus; and she changed the course of a nation.

some say....if you believe....
your belief will do as you say

are you anywhere close to that?

 

[Willamena]

interesting.....
observation is sufficient?
denial pointless?

does this include items beyond perception?
does this include items perceived only by reason?

I fixed a typo.

There are no items "beyond perception," perception is what makes something an "item."

 

[Thief]

I fixed a typo.

There are no items "beyond perception," perception is what makes something an "item."

hmmmm......

you can see all things that are?
and what you cannot perceive.....isn't real?

 

[Willamena]

hmmmm......

you can see all things that are?
and what you cannot perceive.....isn't real?

Of course not. That I can't perceive something has no bearing on its reality. Being an "item" or a "something" is dependent upon perception, though.

It's Russell's tea pot.

 

[Thief]

Of course not. That I can't perceive something has no bearing on its reality. Being an "item" or a "something" is dependent upon perception, though.

It's Russell's tea pot.

or that tree falling down in the forest.....

but what if your belief could change reality?
people under hypnosis can be instructed a great many alterations of perception

one moment you are told.....you're enjoying an ice cream cone
then......YOUR HAIR IS ON FIRE!!!!!

and even so......Brain Games is a show the really messes with your perceptions
maybe you should review the Green Dragon episode

and maybe then reconsidered your 'viewpoint'

 

[Willamena]

or that tree falling down in the forest.....

but what if your belief could change reality?

Then is it really reality you are talking about, in the common vernacular, or something else. You have to decide.

people under hypnosis can be instructed a great many alterations of perception

one moment you are told.....you're enjoying an ice cream cone
then......YOUR HAIR IS ON FIRE!!!!!

and even so......Brain Games is a show the really messes with your perceptions
maybe you should review the Green Dragon episode

and maybe then reconsidered your 'viewpoint'

If the reality is that this is how people under hypnosis behave, then so be it. Is reality preserved by the behavior of people under hypnosis, or is something else going on? You have to decide.

No one can decide for you.

 

[Thief]

Then is it really reality you are talking about, in the common vernacular, or something else. You have to decide.


If the reality is that this is how people under hypnosis behave, then so be it. Is reality preserved by the behavior of people under hypnosis, or is something else going on? You have to decide.

No one can decide for you.

oh!......so belief is a decision?!

 

[Willamena]

oh!......so belief is a decision?!

That's for you to decide.

 

[Thief]

That's for you to decide.

I shall take that as a yes

 

[Willamena]

I shall take that as a yes

You ought not take it as a yes or a no. But, again, that's for you to decide.

 

[Thief]

You ought not take it as a yes or a no. But, again, that's for you to decide.

I must then assume .....your belief flip flops
you choose ( a decision) a point of no stance

a contradiction in terms.....I say

 

[Polymath257]

Belief is irrelevant to truth.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

some say....if you believe....
your belief will do as you say

are you anywhere close to that?

The mind has a nasty tendency to manifest that which it desires most; so in a sense, yes, your belief will do as you say. However, that does not make it real; let alone true. That is why it is so important to test our beliefs and perceptions with objective reality.

 

[Thief]

The mind has a nasty tendency to manifest that which it desires most; so in a sense, yes, your belief will do as you say. However, that does not make it real; let alone true. That is why it is so important to test our beliefs and perceptions with objective reality.

and many beliefs have no tangible ...anything

all you can do is think about it

but if your belief can manifest......
then God can be real