Beliefs in an afterlife - the benefits?

[Terry Sampson]

The comforts are nil?

• I was quoting Updike.
• I did say: "Although I think Updike's view of astronomy's 'comforts' is biased, I found his comparison of astronomy and theology interesting."
• As a consequence of your "yelp", I've amended that comment as follows: ""Although I think Updike's view of astronomy's 'terrors and' "comforts" is biased and debatable, I found his comparison of astronomy and theology interesting."

 

[Nakosis]

I am not into self deception for any reason

Awe... Too bad. A little self deception can be fun sometimes.

 

[Quintessence]

Perhaps you didn't get my point, so I'll simplify it for you. What makes some erroneous beliefs so special?

Nothing? I never said they were special? Where did you get that idea? Dude, I don't even believe in anything resembling conventional notions of afterlives myself!

In any case, that conversation is rather beyond the scope of this thread. If you want to create a broader discussion somewhere about that, go for it!

 

[Quintessence]

I find it tricky to discuss whether beliefs are beneficial, not because it is hard to assess it, but rather because it is a subject that can easily lead ( although not necessarily ) to concluding something akin to: Therefore, we should hold those beliefs.

I'd like to be clear that this is not at all my intention with this thread. I don't agree with that line of thinking myself, because the conclusions do not follow from the premise. Just because something is beneficial doesn't mean that everyone will see those same benefits. Or that similar benefits can't be gotten through other means. They certainly can. But I also don't like it when people pretend that certain things don't have benefits for some people because of reason, X, Y, or Z. That's just as disingenuous.

It depends on what particular belief in afterlife you have and how you think it is gonna affect you and those you love. For instance, believing you are accountable in the afterlife might actually cause distress in this life.

Most definitely! There are certain concepts of the afterlife I've ran into and teachings surrounding it that I find pretty unsavory myself. Ideally, it should be serving in a positive way and if they aren't it's time to reassess and consider discarding them for something else. Mainstream beliefs in afterlives never made much sense to me as a kid - and many of them still don't make sense to me as an adult either - but I have seen how it's helped some folks in various ways. Also how it's harmed, but... well, I like to focus on the positive of things.

You become more likely to fall prey to con artists such as fake mediums.

Some would argue all mediums are fake if they reject all notions of afterlives. But yeah, I get your point there. There are con artists in just about every occupation, and it is worth being vigilant. I've got next to no tolerance for shenanigans that play with people's deeply held emotions, which is what a poor medium would be doing.

 

[Quintessence]

Very creative balance to that other thread!

To me the 'afterlife' belief make our existence tremendously richer. All the spiritual progress we make is not wiped out by an aging brain and death makes things richer and more important.

It's also more depressing to think our loved ones are not continuing to feel our love and caring.

I kind of have mixed feelings about afterlife concepts, personally. On the one hand, I was raised in a culture where some afterlife beliefs are really... not that great. Not just on an emotional level, but on a logical and rational level. On the other hand, I've come to recognize my thinking about afterlife beliefs was unfairly colored by those experiences and that there is a much greater range of them than I used to appreciate. It begs the question - what qualifies as an afterlife? Does a mythic interpretation of what sciences tell us count? Because that's basically what I do as I find it deeply meaningful. It gives me a lot of those same benefits that those who believe in heaven have, but without that kind of framework. What do I call that? It's not really an "after" life as much as a "continuity" life.

Don't mind me, just musing...

 

[Quintessence]

Whatever helps to get you through life.
Myself, I feel these benefits are possible without a belief in the afterlife. However if it gets you to where you need to be, who am I to judge.

Oh yeah, definitely! Kind of like how it's very possible to develop close kinships and clubs with other humans outside of football fandom or something. Many roads to meaning, many stories we weave. Finding meaning in the thing we call "death" is common to us all, though, I think, and it takes different forms. If you haven't woven your story of meaning about that yet, you will. It comes for us all. And sometimes, the stories that serve us well at one point in life stop serving at another...

 

[Quintessence]

I recently came across this John Updike quote: "Astronomy is what we have now instead of theology. The terrors are less, but the comforts are nil’. Although I think Updike's view of astronomy's "comforts" is biased, I found his comparison of astronomy and theology interesting. Who knows? Perhaps, if I or someone had bought a telescope for me when I was younger, I might have given more attention to "what's out there" than to "what happens after this".

This is sort of off-topic, but I've been watching the reboot of Cosmos on and off and one of the things it reminded me of is how the light of the stars is... we are quite literally seeing into the past. A very, very long time in the past. We are seeing the dead, in some cases. With such wonders as that, is it really so far-fetched that echoes of planet Earth and its denizens persist in many directions in time? Whether or not we call that an "after" life is up to us, I guess... I'm not sure I'd use that term for it myself. It's interesting to think about.

 

[halbhh]

I'm not a fan of one-sided appraisals of complex topics, but since we have the other side represented here - Beliefs in an afterlife - the problems? - this one is being created to balance it. Note that the nature of and belief in the afterlife is quite heterogenous and the below represent generalizations that may or may not apply to a specific framework.

Some of the benefits of belief in an afterlife for the living:

• Alleviating Fear. Death represents a big unknown in our lives - it is something we often fear. Telling narratives about death, including though not limited to what happens after we die, help us as a species to cope with fears and anxieties surrounding death especially for the terminally ill. It helps us live.
• Alleviating Grief. If you've ever lost someone who has meant the world to you, you know how hard that is to deal with. Even if an afterlife isn't real, believing that your beloved continues on in some form is a tremendous boon to the bereaved. Again, it helps us live.
• Honoring our Ancestors. Connecting to the past is important for cultures worldwide, and our fallen ancestors often play a role in making those connections. Tales of afterlives can bring vibrancy to these tales and help us celebrate who we are and our culture. It brings together the living.
• Instilling Responsibility. Some cultural narratives about the afterlife emphasize how our behavior in this world impacts that across the veil. So in addition to being held accountable for our actions by the living, we are also held accountable once dead. This doubly encourages us to be responsible!
• Psychopomps and Mediums. Embracing the idea of an afterlife creates a space for experts who help guide both the living and the dead along the journey. In cultures where they are respected, they serve as advisors and counselors who help us reconcile with death.
• Instilling Purpose. Accepting the idea of an afterlife often allows us to create the notion that our lives are going somewhere or adding up to something. A sense of purpose is a very important motivator while living because it brings our lives focus and meaning.

There are no doubt quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as beneficial and helpful?

For me personally, it was only just about being willing to accept reality. I'd already become comfortable with being mortal. Already had lost fear of death enough that one time when violently ill and struggling to breathe and it looked like I might die, I started laughing. There's an end to fear, which I'd already found, before I discovered what Christ said more fully. I had to accept reality after I finally did more Christ said to do, and then the outcome was just undeniable finally, after enough different things (including things no one would believe until it happened to them). I could no longer pretend God might not exist, but had to simply admit He does. That's sorta a challenging moment actually, because it means you have to give up some preferred ideas and part of your feeling there is no ultimate accounting. Once you know there is an ultimate accounting (not a comfortable idea), it does change things. It's not less good. But it's like....you have 14 things you like, and say one is promiscuity, and now you find out, uh oh, that one isn't going to work out in an accounting, and so....it had to go. Not less good. Different. Better things to replace old things.

 

[George-ananda]

I kind of have mixed feelings about afterlife concepts, personally. On the one hand, I was raised in a culture where some afterlife beliefs are really... not that great. Not just on an emotional level, but on a logical and rational level. On the other hand, I've come to recognize my thinking about afterlife beliefs was unfairly colored by those experiences and that there is a much greater range of them than I used to appreciate.

My afterlife beliefs are not formed by any religion but by the paranormal and psychic evidence. I think any of the negatives to an afterlife go away with an intelligent modern understanding.

To me belief in an afterlife is actually the most important thing to my philosophical and ultimately practical happiness.

It begs the question - what qualifies as an afterlife? Does a mythic interpretation of what sciences tell us count? Because that's basically what I do as I find it deeply meaningful. It gives me a lot of those same benefits that those who believe in heaven have, but without that kind of framework. What do I call that? It's not really an "after" life as much as a "continuity" life.

Don't mind me, just musing...

Well in my philosophy the literal term 'afterlife' is not correct either as there is life before this life too. In fact I hold consciousness to be eternal. But 'afterlife' is a word I use anyway as it is just the colloquially popular word in normal conversation.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I'm not a fan of one-sided appraisals of complex topics, but since we have the other side represented here - Beliefs in an afterlife - the problems? - this one is being created to balance it. Note that the nature of and belief in the afterlife is quite heterogenous and the below represent generalizations that may or may not apply to a specific framework.

Some of the benefits of belief in an afterlife for the living:

• Alleviating Fear. Death represents a big unknown in our lives - it is something we often fear. Telling narratives about death, including though not limited to what happens after we die, help us as a species to cope with fears and anxieties surrounding death especially for the terminally ill. It helps us live.
• Alleviating Grief. If you've ever lost someone who has meant the world to you, you know how hard that is to deal with. Even if an afterlife isn't real, believing that your beloved continues on in some form is a tremendous boon to the bereaved. Again, it helps us live.
• Honoring our Ancestors. Connecting to the past is important for cultures worldwide, and our fallen ancestors often play a role in making those connections. Tales of afterlives can bring vibrancy to these tales and help us celebrate who we are and our culture. It brings together the living.
• Instilling Responsibility. Some cultural narratives about the afterlife emphasize how our behavior in this world impacts that across the veil. So in addition to being held accountable for our actions by the living, we are also held accountable once dead. This doubly encourages us to be responsible!
• Psychopomps and Mediums. Embracing the idea of an afterlife creates a space for experts who help guide both the living and the dead along the journey. In cultures where they are respected, they serve as advisors and counselors who help us reconcile with death.
• Instilling Purpose. Accepting the idea of an afterlife often allows us to create the notion that our lives are going somewhere or adding up to something. A sense of purpose is a very important motivator while living because it brings our lives focus and meaning.

There are no doubt quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as beneficial and helpful?

I suspect that I could also alleviate fear of death if I could simply convince myself that I'm immortal and will never die. The problem would be in convincing myself of such a claim when there's absolutely no verifiable evidence to suggest that I or anyone else is actually immortal. The same goes for convincing myself that there's some kind of an afterlife after death. The fact that there might be certain benefits to convincing myself that it's true doesn't in any way shape or form help me to believe that it actually is true.

 

[Audie]

Awe... Too bad. A little self deception can be fun sometimes.

Ah, maybe I fib to myself sometimes.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How come you can ruin inertia for nothingness, ..

This is a wrong premise. Nothingness is pulsating. Just a little perturbance and it blows up into a universe.

 

[Quagmire]

If nothing else, a belief in an afterlife makes my life more interesting.

As a bonus, according to my beliefs the things that I need to do to prepare for the next life --- learn, grow --- are exactly the same things I need to do to make this life worthwhile.

It's sort of like Pascal's Wager with a stop loss.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I'm not a fan of one-sided appraisals of complex topics, but since we have the other side represented here - Beliefs in an afterlife - the problems? - this one is being created to balance it. Note that the nature of and belief in the afterlife is quite heterogenous and the below represent generalizations that may or may not apply to a specific framework.

Some of the benefits of belief in an afterlife for the living:

• Alleviating Fear. Death represents a big unknown in our lives - it is something we often fear. Telling narratives about death, including though not limited to what happens after we die, help us as a species to cope with fears and anxieties surrounding death especially for the terminally ill. It helps us live.
• Alleviating Grief. If you've ever lost someone who has meant the world to you, you know how hard that is to deal with. Even if an afterlife isn't real, believing that your beloved continues on in some form is a tremendous boon to the bereaved. Again, it helps us live.
• Honoring our Ancestors. Connecting to the past is important for cultures worldwide, and our fallen ancestors often play a role in making those connections. Tales of afterlives can bring vibrancy to these tales and help us celebrate who we are and our culture. It brings together the living.
• Instilling Responsibility. Some cultural narratives about the afterlife emphasize how our behavior in this world impacts that across the veil. So in addition to being held accountable for our actions by the living, we are also held accountable once dead. This doubly encourages us to be responsible!
• Psychopomps and Mediums. Embracing the idea of an afterlife creates a space for experts who help guide both the living and the dead along the journey. In cultures where they are respected, they serve as advisors and counselors who help us reconcile with death.
• Instilling Purpose. Accepting the idea of an afterlife often allows us to create the notion that our lives are going somewhere or adding up to something. A sense of purpose is a very important motivator while living because it brings our lives focus and meaning.

There are no doubt quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as beneficial and helpful?

I've already had an experience with death when just a child, so have no fear in the "death" of the body. I know what to expect.

Grief is all about oneself. It is ALL about missing someone important in one's life. People need to toughen up and accept the passing of a loved one and move on. Think of it this way:

When mulling this question over while meditating one time, God gave my soul a viewpoint overlooking the earth. Watching all the people below endlessly connecting with people for a while and then moving on to connect with other people, over, and over, and over... And also seeing all the departing souls leaving earth, going to judgment, with most being returned to earth for another life cycle. Watching an endless cycle of people constantly in motion coming and going into each others lives. And that is the way it is. So one needs to come to terms with that and learn how to move on. The past is the past. Grieving about it will NOT bring it back.

Yes, we are here on earth, the physical realm, to learn the spiritual lessons given to us so we can spiritually evolve enough to pass God's judgment and enter "Heaven", the spiritual realm. There we will continue to learn spiritual lessons and evolve thru-out all eternity.

 

[lukethethird]

Not interested in afterlife, I'll be dead.

 

[Galateasdream]

If nothing else, a belief in an afterlife makes my life more interesting

I'm reminded of Douglas Adams' complaint that why should people want to believe in fairies in the garden when nature is so wonderful herself?

The obvious answer is that it's better to have both the natural garden and the fairies too - as a religious person I get all the grandeur of existence available to the materialist, yet with the magical addition of the demon haunted world of wonder on top!

 

[Mock Turtle]

• I was quoting Updike.
• I did say: "Although I think Updike's view of astronomy's 'comforts' is biased, I found his comparison of astronomy and theology interesting."
• As a consequence of your "yelp", I've amended that comment as follows: ""Although I think Updike's view of astronomy's 'terrors and' "comforts" is biased and debatable, I found his comparison of astronomy and theology interesting."

Well my comment was just that, about such a comment, but then astronomy was not so advanced then.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Me neither

This seems an interesting thing to state given your previous post in this thread in which you stated:

Since I hold to a sort of ultra-universalism, where every being gets ultimate justice, recompense, and bliss, I find my cosmic optimism a great psychological comfort.

and

I've had other views of the afterlife which were not as pleasant or comforting, and I can't imagine a scenario better than the one I currently believe in. It would be unreasonable not to desire it to be true, as far as I can see.

What these two paragraphs present is that, at some point, you held an incorrect belief. Whether that is the one you are holding now (paragraph 1), or this "other view of the afterlife" that you have held at some point (paragraph 2). So, unless you were truly only making an assessment about either of these afterlife options based on the very best information you had at either time, then you were indeed self-deceiving and yet you agreed that is something you "do not like to do for any reason."

On the surface, this all seems rather contradictory. But perhaps you have an explanation?

 

[Galateasdream]

you held an incorrect belief.

I've held many. Probably still do

On the surface, this all seems rather contradictory.

I can't see even an apparent contradiction, let alone an actual one. Can you spell out the contradiction for me?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I've held many. Probably still do



I can't see even an apparent contradiction, let alone an actual one. Can you spell out the contradiction for me?

If the two (or more) accounts of the afterlife that you have believed in do not contain the same details of presentation (i.e. the place, where it is, how it is setup), attribution to an individual (i.e. rules for acceptance, how one is represented there), ruling deity (i.e. who is the ultimate administrator of the "place"), etc. (there are, of course, a great many details to go into here, but these are a sample) - then the multiple places that do not match on these details are in conflict. AND, because there are multiples in which you have believed, it is simple, unavoidable FACT that not all of them comport with reality. Meaning that all but one of them must necessarily break from reality, and very likely even that remaining one. And so, you are contradicting yourself when you say that you always attempt not to deceive yourself. You have obviously done so on more than one occasion by believing in multiple afterlives that cannot possibly all exist. In other words, all but one of them must necessarily be believed by self-deception. And again - even the last hold out (whatever you think it MOST desirable, or "the best", likely the one you are currently believing) is likely heavily in conflict with reality. You honestly can't know for sure otherwise. And so here again, you are likely deceiving yourself by believing.