Beliefs

[Pah]

Austin Cline, Agnosticism/Atheism

http://atheism.about.com/

Belief Formation & Education (Book Notes: Tilting at Religion)

Getting people to change their beliefs can be difficult, especially when those beliefs are related to subjects like religion or politics. Sometimes, people will refuse to even reconsider their beliefs or entertain the possibility that they might be mistaken - regardless of what sort of evidence they are faced with. Why is that?

In Tilting at Religion, Glenn W. Ferguson writes: Tilting at Religion

At a relatively early age, we accept or reject a point of view expressed by a parent, classmate, teacher, parson, or friend or incorporated in some form of communication. It is virtually impossible to document the time frame when the point of view or belief became our own, but once claimed, it is difficult to alter. ...When a belief is captured, experience that tends to refute that belief is ignored. Beliefs nurtured at an early age become impregnable barriers to education or even discussion​

 

[Quiddity]

Austin Cline, Agnosticism/Atheism

http://atheism.about.com/

Belief Formation & Education (Book Notes: Tilting at Religion)

Getting people to change their beliefs can be difficult, especially when those beliefs are related to subjects like religion or politics. Sometimes, people will refuse to even reconsider their beliefs or entertain the possibility that they might be mistaken - regardless of what sort of evidence they are faced with. Why is that?

In Tilting at Religion, Glenn W. Ferguson writes: Tilting at Religion

At a relatively early age, we accept or reject a point of view expressed by a parent, classmate, teacher, parson, or friend or incorporated in some form of communication. It is virtually impossible to document the time frame when the point of view or belief became our own, but once claimed, it is difficult to alter. ...When a belief is captured, experience that tends to refute that belief is ignored. Beliefs nurtured at an early age become impregnable barriers to education or even discussion
​

I agree....how then do you think this applies to those who have changed their worldview and are stubborn son of guns....

 

[Booko]

I agree....how then do you think this applies to those who have changed their worldview and are stubborn son of guns....

Having done that twice, I was curious about this as well. As for the stubbornness, I resemble that remark.

 

[Cerrax]

To quote the greatest religious movie of all time:

"All of this ends because of a belief."

"Are you saying that its bad to have beliefs?"

"I think its better to just have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. "

 

[c0da]

At a relatively early age, we accept or reject a point of view expressed by a parent, classmate, teacher, parson, or friend or incorporated in some form of communication. It is virtually impossible to document the time frame when the point of view or belief became our own, but once claimed, it is difficult to alter. ...When a belief is captured, experience that tends to refute that belief is ignored. Beliefs nurtured at an early age become impregnable barriers to education or even discussion

Good Post

It all depends on how heavily exposed somebody is to a belief and the way in which it is taught to somebody. I was a Christian through my parents, but within my school, these beliefs weren't made a huge deal off and my parents never actually made a huge deal of forcing these beliefs on me, but for some people, certain belief systems are imprinted into their head and they find it hard to accept anything else.

It all depends on the level of exposure to a certain belief system and external experiences the individual has which might test these beliefs.

 

[Quiddity]

Having done that twice, I was curious about this as well. As for the stubbornness, I resemble that remark.

Me too....

 

[lunamoth]

Interesting idea. I wonder how often it is that we change belief systems, which mean we accept different details, but in our broad (and deepest) worldview we remain essentially the same. For example, we might change religions, or switch from a theistic belief to atheistic, yet our core values remain the same. Similarly, I wonder how often people go from viewing the world (or God, or each other) as harsh and judgemental to viewing the world as loving and forgiving and vice versa. I've gone from Christianity to agnostic to Baha'i and back to Christianity, and even though I went through a long phase where I did not think about God or faith, my values and ethics have changed little, as has my benignly neutral to somewhat optimistic outlook for the future.

lunamoth

 

[Booko]

Interesting idea. I wonder how often it is that we change belief systems, which mean we accept different details, but in our broad (and deepest) worldview we remain essentially the same. For example, we might change religions, or switch from a theistic belief to atheistic, yet our core values remain the same. Similarly, I wonder how often people go from viewing the world (or God, or each other) as harsh and judgemental to viewing the world as loving and forgiving and vice versa. I've gone from Christianity to agnostic to Baha'i and back to Christianity, and even though I went through a long phase where I did not think about God or faith, my values and ethics have changed little, as has my benignly neutral to somewhat optimistic outlook for the future.

You raise a number of interesting points here, lunamoth.

Some things haven't really changed. Despite changes in beliefs, my approach to life has remained essentially the same. That is, how I decide what is "truth" is pretty much the same. The general ethic of "treat people well" hasn't changed, though my ability to act on that idea as improved over the years, but I think that's more a function of age and experience. I'm still essentially skeptical, though I'm less apt to express that skepticism.

Other things have changed, though. I was raised with a view of God that is best described as "Hairy Thunderer" (as opposed to "Cosmic Muffin"), rejected that, and came to a different view that's anything but hellfire and brimstone. I moved from pessimism to optimism (though I still retain some short-term pessimism in some areas), and moved away from cynicism.

Some things have changed. Others have not changed at all.

 

[lunamoth]

You raise a number of interesting points here, lunamoth.

Some things haven't really changed. Despite changes in beliefs, my approach to life has remained essentially the same. That is, how I decide what is "truth" is pretty much the same. The general ethic of "treat people well" hasn't changed, though my ability to act on that idea as improved over the years, but I think that's more a function of age and experience. I'm still essentially skeptical, though I'm less apt to express that skepticism.

I think I am a fairly skeptical persona as well, and I also withhold those opinions more often. For one thing, I certainly don't know everything, and even attempts at humility are a very good thing.

Other things have changed, though. I was raised with a view of God that is best described as "Hairy Thunderer" (as opposed to "Cosmic Muffin"), rejected that, and came to a different view that's anything but hellfire and brimstone. I moved from pessimism to optimism (though I still retain some short-term pessimism in some areas), and moved away from cynicism.

I was wondering about that Booko. Whle I certainly have never believed in the Hairy Thunderer, and if I had been raised that way I think there's a good chance I would now be an atheist (just speaking for myself, knowing how I react to things), I also do not beleive in the Cosmic Muffin. The Way of Love, as you know, is not always a walk through a bed of roses. There are reasons we have God and Christ portrayed at times with military overtones, but those overtones do not mean we should be warring with each other. Rather, with the evil that lurks within, and oh so close to the surface at times. And, as I've said before, the only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a few good people to do nothing.

Anyway, it is interesting that you feel your world view has become less cynical, and that is a great thing.

Some things have changed. Others have not changed at all.

Well, I have to say that I have not remained completely unchanged over all these years. I do credit my return to faith, first as a Baha'i and now as a Christian, to a transformation in the positive direction. I was never cynical, but I do think I have less worry and anxiety, and more compassion directed toward the world at large, than I did when I was younger. Faith leads to trust which leads to confidence and generostiy, IMO.

peace,
luna

 

[sparc872]

I'ved been tossed all over thing ring too. I don't think that who I am at the core has changed all that much. What little of it has has probably changed due to everyday growth and experience. Every second of life brings new perspective. I am still inquisitve and on a hunt for the truth. I am still skeptical, maybe more so now than when I was a Christian...haha, I don't believe in UFO's like I used to, or ghosts for that matter. But both of those might have been because I was still pretty young (I guess at 19, I still am). I do still believe in bigfoot, I think I'll take that with me to the grave. He's out there! I don't believe in God anymore, that's the big and obvious one, but it really hasn't all that huge of an impact on me as one might think. That is probably because I was never really all too serious about Christianity save for a couple of years.

I am still Chris, I am still sparc872...as I have been for the past 10 years, just in different domains. I should probably get a new screen name...but habits are hard to kill and it has meaning to me now. Anyways...I agree with the OP...beliefs are hard to change.

 

[Pah]

Having done that twice, I was curious about this as well. As for the stubbornness, I resemble that remark.

I think I've done it twice as well - Christian to atheist to Christian to atheist. The first "status" as Christian came from my parents and the teaching I received from the church. Outside reading made me a "wishy-washy" atheist until I came accross a thought that God was love and that gave me a "rational" progression to being "born again" but with all the old trappings. Association with "born-againers" brought me speaking in tounges and a gift for counsellling. Thinking about my progression made me realize it was all internal. Now I just grow stronger in my certainties.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

In Calvinism, God must do a regeneration of one's heart and mind before an outward manifestation of being "born again" can occur. Arminianists strongly disagree with this and state that the opposite is true.

Personally, I was brought up in a very secular fashion not only from my parents but from the wonderfull public school system also. I did not become "born again" until I was nineteen. On top of that, I did not accept the basic tenets of Calvinism until I was 27. I would like to think that I am not a stubborn person when it comes to beliefs but my past does not indicate that. I do try to be as objective as I can and try to understand the logic of why people believe what they do which actually further confirms why I believe what I do. I know from my own experience and from watching others respond to what seems to be some of the most logical arguements that we are extrememly stubborn beings.

One of my most favorite example's of this is the use of the words "free will". It seems that even though people acknowledge that there is not very much logic behind the notion, they still throw the word out like it is candy or something. The pastor of the church I go to, who is a pretty decent guy, does this in our discussion over this issue. It's really quite funny, oh well. Those are my thoughts on this issue. BTW, great discussion.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

Getting people to change their beliefs can be difficult, especially when those beliefs are related to subjects like religion or politics. Sometimes, people will refuse to even reconsider their beliefs or entertain the possibility that they might be mistaken - regardless of what sort of evidence they are faced with. Why is that?

Because they have faith