Believing in god is NOT a choice

[Sententia]

This is a popular cop out...

What does it mean exactly?

At some point you were told about god. At some point you were also told about tooth fairies, santa and leprechauns.

You either consciously or unconsciously chose to believe. If you think you had no choice what does that mean?

 

[Willamena]

It means we only believe because we have evidence.

 

[Sententia]

It means we only believe because we have evidence.

That is not an answer. My post here is evidence that I am in fact the god you believe in. How you consider and weigh that evidence is up to you but saying because you have evidence means believing is not a choice is silly.

We have evidence that William killed Bill. Its circumstantial and not conclusive and likely falsified but we choose to believe William killed Bill anyways...

Still a choice.

 

[whereismynotecard]

I don't think it is a choice in the regard that you cannot force yourself to believe something, but I guess you do have the choice to look at all of the possibilities and "choose" which one makes sense to you or just believe what mom and dad told you.

 

[Willamena]

That is not an answer. My post here is evidence that I am in fact the god you believe in.

That statement would only be signficant to me if you were the god you believe in.

How you consider and weigh that evidence is up to you but saying because you have evidence means believing is not a choice is silly.

That's true: choice has nothing to do with it.

We have evidence that William killed Bill. Its circumstantial and not conclusive and likely falsified but we choose to believe William killed Bill anyways...

Still a choice.

The evidence I have is your word.

 

[ChristineES]

If an atheist doesn't choose to not believe in God, then a theist doesn't choose to believe in God, either. They just do.

 

[Sententia]

If an atheist doesn't choose to not believe in God, then a theist doesn't choose to believe in God, either. They just do.

Quid pro quo Clarice.

Let me first point out that this is not even remotely mature. Its a kindergarten argument. If white people choose X the Black people can choose Y. Simple really.

They just do. Its an acknowledgment of many things right? I think Willamena was more on target then this nonsense.

What does that mean? You just do? You were told about god and you believe. You didn't choose because unlike all other humans you have no free will except you do but not in the matter of god. Atheist don't claim this balderdash... There is no evidence to support a belief in god. You choose that the evidence you have is sufficient to support a belief in god. You chose. Your choice. Your decision and your life. I am not going to hold it against you but I do want to point out that it is indeed a choice.

 

[ChristineES]

OK, if you say so.

 

[Willamena]

Quid pro quo Clarice.

Let me first point out that this is not even remotely mature. Its a kindergarten argument. If white people choose X the Black people can choose Y. Simple really.

They just do. Its an acknowledgment of many things right? I think Willamena was more on target then this nonsense.

What does that mean? You just do? You were told about god and you believe. You didn't choose because unlike all other humans you have no free will except you do but not in the matter of god. Atheist don't claim this balderdash... There is no evidence to support a belief in god. You choose that the evidence you have is sufficient to support a belief in god. You chose. Your choice. Your decision and your life. I am not going to hold it against you but I do want to point out that it is indeed a choice.

I disagree. There is a position that necessitates both believing and not believing in 'God', and hence, similarly, beleiving in neither. There is nothing "kindergarten" about Neitzsche. The example of black people having different "free will" than white people is appauling.

 

[Sententia]

OK, if you say so.

That is an argument presented by one prone to accept the words of authority or one who has given up. IMHO.

Sad.

You stated something you believe in. That if atheists can do something then so can theists.

There is no basis for the whole atheist BS nonsense but we have your opinion and your statement that it is acceptable that theists believe in god not because of choice. How did you arrive at this logical impasse?

 

[Sententia]

I disagree. There is a position that necessitates both believing and not believing in 'God', and hence, similarly, beleiving in neither. There is nothing "kindergarten" about Neitzsche. The example of black people having different "free will" than white people is appauling.

Its appalling mate and my point is that free will is maintained equally and not differentiated by humans let alone the melanin levels and minor genetic differences between people.

My argument is that both a belief and non belief of god is in fact a choice. Never is it not a choice except in those of severe delusion of possible mental genetic defects and severe and total indoctrination.

If someone presents the argument that they never personally ever had the choice to believe or not believe that is indeed what I am questioning and seeking more information on. :angel2:

 

[Willamena]

That is an argument presented by one prone to accept the words of authority or one who has given up. IMHO.

No... it doesn't mean you win.

 

[Willamena]

My argument is that both a belief and non belief of god is in fact a choice. Never is it not a choice except in those of severe delusion of possible mental genetic defects and severe and total indoctrination.

Alright, then, I'll hear your argument. Present it.

 

[ChristineES]

That is an argument presented by one prone to accept the words of authority or one who has given up. IMHO.

Sad.

You stated something you believe in. That if atheists can do something then so can theists.

There is no basis for the whole atheist BS nonsense but we have your opinion and your statement that it is acceptable that theists believe in god not because of choice. How did you arrive at this logical impasse?

Actually, it isn't a giving up, as you say, but a thing to say when someone tells you what you believe in is BS or nonsense. I can't debate someone who totally dismisses my opinion like that. It would end up in kind of a stale mate.

 

[ChristineES]

Its appalling mate and my point is that free will is maintained equally and not differentiated by humans let alone the melanin levels and minor genetic differences between people.

My argument is that both a belief and non belief of god is in fact a choice. Never is it not a choice except in those of severe delusion of possible mental genetic defects and severe and total indoctrination.

If someone presents the argument that they never personally ever had the choice to believe or not believe that is indeed what I am questioning and seeking more information on. :angel2:

I think that is why I had a problem. I didn't see it as argument, but a difference of opinion- a debate or discussion. Not your fault or mine, I just prefer a debate to an argument (and there is a difference).

 

[Sententia]

No... it doesn't mean you win.

I am fairly certain I did not imply I did win and asked for more information.

Are you feeling particularly antagonistic tonight? My thoughts were... don't stop posting... you stated something I regard as logically false and want to know how you got there. Never did I imply I won nor do I think Christine has suddenly converted to atheism nor was my intent to do so.

Further my intent is not to win. That is not a goal in clicking submit reply. (If it was its not realistic as Religious forums is not a game and does not start over when people, by your definition, win) Beyond character defamation and ad homs and possible some innate sense of loyalty or misguided sense to defend against your misguided perception of winning posts... I can't see your point with this post.

 

[zenzero]

Friend BalanceFX,

Its appalling mate and my point is that free will is maintained equally and not differentiated by humans let alone the melanin levels and minor genetic differences between people.

My argument is that both a belief and non belief of god is in fact a choice. Never is it not a choice except in those of severe delusion of possible mental genetic defects and severe and total indoctrination.

If someone presents the argument that they never personally ever had the choice to believe or not believe that is indeed what I am questioning and seeking more information on

Here's another view point.
Personally have no beliefs about any subject god or no god.

Beliefs are only mind perceptions which are all due to the minds colouring about the subject.
Truth is when the mind is still and the individual [ego] is no more.
If the individual mind is still and the individual non-exiting then who can talk about any beliefs?
That is the same reason all enlightened people only can *POINT the finger towards the moon* and the others to Understand.
Love & rgds

 

[Willamena]

I am fairly certain I did not imply I did win and asked for more information.

My thoughts were... don't stop posting... you stated something I regard as logically false and want to know how you got there.

And yet you dismissed her statement arbitrarily.

 

[ChristineES]

To state my case- I don't remember any conscious choice when I first began to believe. It is like believing whether the sun exists or not- I couldn't choose, it is right there in the sky every day for at least 12 hours or so. It would be the same for God- I don't see God sitting on some cloudy throne or anything like that, but I do see the world around me.

 

[Sententia]

Actually, it isn't a giving up, as you say, but a thing to say when someone tells you what you believe in is BS or nonsense. I can't debate someone who totally dismisses my opinion like that. It would end up in kind of a stale mate.

I am not dismissing your beliefs but stating your chose them. If you debate that you debate that you had no free will to choose your beliefs and you might be right...

So then... Logically... why do you feel you had no choice? What makes you think that your personal belief in god is not a choice?

Atheists typically do not present the same argument. Normally they say things like I disagree that the bible proves god. Or There is not enough evidence to support a belief in god....

Or... What I think is misconstrued... Its not a choice that an atheist makes when he or she chooses not to believe in god no more then it is a choice he makes when he or she chooses not to believe in unicorns.

Its is still in fact a choice... The evidence considered and weighed led to that choice and the expression is that the evidence for god is no more then the evidence for unicorns but the expression does not imply the atheist did not choose.

So often I see the theist argument that a belief in god is not in fact a choice... Always I am led to how do people conclude this? Its not rational or logical and there are explanations behind the statements but if someone actually says.... my belief in god is not a choice.... why do they say it? What is the reasoning and how did they end up at this seemingly, to me, logical impasse?