Believing Vs Knowing

[Earthling]

The answer to me is when there is evidence.

To me the evidence can be external, in other words the scientific method.

Isn't that only to dilute, moderate, mitigate, modify the responsibility?

The evidence can also be internal, experiential, the experience of the mystic - one who travels the spiritual path until he or she reaches the destination.

To me that's like saying the evidence can also be a dream, hallucination, groovy philosophy or bovine excrement. Which, is probably no more or less harmful than the scientific method.

Carry on.

 

[Shia Islam]

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At what point does believing something change into knowing it?

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It starts from knowing and ends at believing, not the vice versa. That is the true belief.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Isn't that only to dilute, moderate, mitigate, modify the responsibility?



To me that's like saying the evidence can also be a dream, hallucination, groovy philosophy or bovine excrement. Which, is probably no more or less harmful than the scientific method.

Carry on.

Applying the scientific method and using scientific evidence is perhaps the clearest way to demonstrate that one understands an idea. Of course most creationists do not understand the scientific method and practically none of them understand the concept of scientific evidence. And on a related note they do not seem to want to learn.

How else can one demonstrate that one knows something and does not merely believe?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It starts from knowing and ends at believing, not the vice versa. That is the true belief.

It appears that you are saying that religious beliefs are not true beliefs in this post. None of them seem to "know".

 

[Earthling]

Applying the scientific method and using scientific evidence is perhaps the clearest way to demonstrate that one understands an idea.

. . . and that would be . . . your opinion? Yes. That's right.

Of course most creationists do not understand the scientific method and practically none of them understand the concept of scientific evidence. And on a related note they do not seem to want to learn.

. . . and that would be . . . your opinion? Yes. That's right.

How else can one demonstrate that one knows something and does not merely believe?

Uh . . . shut his freakin' pie hole?

 

[SalixIncendium]

As AronRa is fond of saying"If you can't show it you don't know it".

Ocrap! I don't know I like pizza!

 

[SalixIncendium]

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View attachment 27902 ​

At what point does believing something change into knowing it?

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When someone posts about it on RF.

 

[Earthling]

When someone posts about it on RF.

No! Blasphemy!

Hey, whoa . . . not me!

 

[Subduction Zone]

. . . and that would be . . . your opinion? Yes. That's right.

Partially, but supported by the fact that we are communicating right now. It beats what you have all hollow.

. . . and that would be . . . your opinion? Yes. That's right.

No, that is an observed fact. Please, now it looks like you do not even know what an opinion is.

Uh . . . shut his freakin' pie hole?

So sad. Perhaps the best thing that you could do. Or try to learn for once. Don't you ever wish to learn how we can tell that we are the product of evolution? Once again you appear to be projecting your sins on others. If one can support ones claims then he has demonstrated that he knows. If one can't. then . . . For example as to the behavior of creationists I can link thread after thread where they run away from offers to learn the basics once they demonstrate that they do not understand the scientific method or the concept of evidence. I could give our discussions as an example where you do not wish to learn those concepts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ocrap! I don't know I like pizza!

You could show it by devouring a pie for two or more all by yourself.

 

[Earthling]

At what point does believing something change into knowing it?

Honestly and seriously? I think when you try and convey the thing to someone else. But it isn't truly knowledge. It's a set of arbitrary rules, like, for example, grammar and math, it's a reflection of learning. Despotic or autocratic.

I was taught blah, blah, blah and so blah, blah, blah is what I 'know' or have intimate familiarity with.

To err is human but to forgive is . . . well, for the wandering agnostic, it sure isn't the scientific method.

 

[Earthling]

Partially, but supported by the fact that we are communicating right now. It beats what you have all hollow.

What have I in our communication that you haven't?

No, that is an observed fact. Please, now it looks like you do not even know what an opinion is.

There you go again. It isn't your opinion so I must not know what opinion is. You even try that with my own Bible for criticizing a general apathetic approach to the Biblical by Christians. Amazing! You see? I told you you were interesting in that capacity.

So sad. Perhaps the best thing that you could do. Or try to learn for once. Don't you ever wish to learn how we can tell that we are the product of evolution? Once again you appear to be projecting your sins on others. If one can support ones claims then he has demonstrated that he knows. If one can't. then . . . For example as to the behavior of creationists I can link thread after thread where they run away from offers to learn the basics once they demonstrate that they do not understand the scientific method or the concept of evidence. I could give our discussions as an example where you do not wish to learn those concepts.

Of course you can! What else could you do? But I'm not talking about that subject am I?

 

[Trailblazer]

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At what point does believing something change into knowing it?

When we have certitude that what we believe is the Truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

As AronRa is fond of saying"If you can't show it you don't know it".

We can try to show what we know but that does not mean that others will see what we see. Others cannot know what we know unless they see what we see.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We can try to show what we know but that does not mean that others will see what we see. Others cannot know what we know unless they see what we see.

That may only mean that you share a belief and not knowledge.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What have I in our communication that you haven't?

You have a lack of an ability to support your claims.

There you go again. It isn't your opinion so I must not know what opinion is. You even try that with my own Bible for criticizing a general apathetic approach to the Biblical by Christians. Amazing! You see? I told you you were interesting in that capacity.

Nope, try again. You need to learn the difference between opinion, observations and facts.

Of course you can! What else could you do? But I'm not talking about that subject am I?

We are talking in general right now of how one knows. Or at least some of us are.

 

[Trailblazer]

That may only mean that you share a belief and not knowledge.

Or I might have knowledge of my belief but not everyone agrees that it is knowledge.

 

[Earthling]

You have a lack of an ability to support your claims.

Which claims are those?

Nope, try again. You need to learn the difference between opinion, observations and facts.

I do?! Is that just your opinion? Amazing. I just feel so silly. Here I was just saying how nearly everything you expound upon regarding any subject was unmitigated personal opinion in the transmogrified guise of facts and evidence and here you are. Well, spouting personal opinion in post after post after post all while smugly propagating the necessity for me to back up my claims.

I could just kick myself. In fact . . . I think I will. There. Now I've done it. Gee! Thanks, you self proclaimed god of all human wisdom wrapped in a modest collision between two of the planet's tectonic plates, you!

We are talking in general right now of how one knows. Or at least some of us are.

Some of us believe we are.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Which claims are those?




I do?! Is that just your opinion? Amazing. I just feel so silly. Here I was just saying how nearly everything you expound upon regarding any subject was unmitigated personal opinion in the transmogrified guise of facts and evidence and here you are. Well, spouting personal opinion in post after post after post all while smugly propagating the necessity for me to back up my claims.

I could just kick myself. In fact . . . I think I will. There. Now I've done it. Gee! Thanks, you self proclaimed god of all human wisdom wrapped in a modest collision between two of the planet's tectonic plates, you!



Some of us believe we are.

Try again, see if you can be polite next time. I do get tired of rude people that have no interest in learning.

 

[Jumi]

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At what point does believing something change into knowing it?

A tricky question. The border between belief and knowing isn't easily discernable. Leaving your keys in your regular spot, you might believe they are there but you've accidentally dropped them. It happens to people all the time.